ATTA or KOATTA/ATTA discussion

[AnitaNap]

I have a few questions about what's been said on this topic recently.

I understand that KOATTA is having a hard time getting started up... What I missed was where it says that in joining ATTA you have to help them get things along. I realize quite a few of you have kids that play, and kids that are in KOATTA, but I do not. I joined ATTA so that I could have a group of adults to play with, and I was under the impression that I would be surrounded by adults when I play with the clan.

I can see how those of you who are parents of said kids would want to go with them on runs and help them out. But when did it become the entire ATTA taking on that task? I've stated before that I have no problems about running a few boss battles with them once or twice a month, but that's different then telling them they can come to just about anything they want to, no matter their age or membership status (as someone posted above).

My biggest fear about having kids around at most of our events is this: If these kids are coming to quite a few events, a natural reaction would be to want to become friends with us. I am not looking to friend any more kids, on any of my toons. I have quite a few kids and teens on my various toons already, and want to save my remaining spots for adults from the ATTA clan. So if a kid that's been running with us (and having a blast, no doubt!) wants to be my friend, I will be saying no. Or even worse, if I add them thinking that they're an adult and find out later that they're not, I will be placed in the uncomfortable situation of removing them from my list, and explaining why.

Furthermore, who is to say that these kids who show up to our runs won't invite a few friends of theirs to come? Who in turn invite friends of theirs... etc. Then our runs might be up to 50% kids, and then I don't see the point of declaring our selves the "ATTA" any more.

The only reason I'm posting this is in the spirit of the OP, opening up more discussion about what's going on. I'm sorry if everyone feels more settled with the progress, but I (and I'm thinking I'm probably not the only one) am still very unclear about where KOATTA starts and ATTA ends. I hope I haven't stepped on too many toes here. I'm definitely looking forward to figuring out, with you all, in what direction we're headed.

[The Dogfather]

Originally Posted by AnitaNap

I can see how those of you who are parents of said kids would want to go with them on runs and help them out. But when did it become the entire ATTA taking on that task? I've stated before that I have no problems about running a few boss battles with them once or twice a month, but that's different then telling them they can come to just about anything they want to, no matter their age or membership status (as someone posted above).

Originally Posted by AnitaNap

I am not looking to friend any more kids, on any of my toons. I have quite a few kids and teens on my various toons already, and want to save my remaining spots for adults from the ATTA clan.

I agree with what you are saying, and I will say that it is not ATTA's duty to help KOATTA; just coming from the goodness in our group. Not everyone has to help them, just the people that want to. The way I see it, if we do want to keep less kids in our events, we do need to help and make KOATTA more attractive so that they may go there instead of with us.

No matter how much we try, we can never keep children or non-members from attending any of our activities, and I personally wouldnt want to discourage anyone by telling them no, except for griefers. We can just hope that the kids go with their group. We can state, "adults only," but as our group grows, there will be a lot of individuals attending regardless what we say.

The best option is to join the adult IM chat so that our activities can remain adult-like. Since it will be only adults in the IM chat, you will be able to know who is adult and who is a child. I dont blame you for wanting to friend adults only now, I did the same thing long ago.

Originally Posted by AnitaNap

I (and I'm thinking I'm probably not the only one) am still very unclear about where KOATTA starts and ATTA ends. I hope I haven't stepped on too many toes here. I'm definitely looking forward to figuring out, with you all, in what direction we're headed.

There does need to be a major distinction between the two groups, and the Happy Hour Lounge and our IM chat do facilitate that. In most of the boss runs that I have been to, the majority of the individuals are adults.


The Dogfather

[AnitaNap]

Well I think being "discouraging" about the age of those who join us was kind of the reason the group was started. Correct me if I'm wrong. I realize randoms will most likely show up, but welcoming everyone isn't where I want to go with it. I already help do that with the CCG, this is a different clan, and as such I think there can be different rules.

Originally Posted by The Dogfather

The best option is to join the adult IM chat so that our activities can remain adult-like. Since it will be only adults in the IM chat, you will be able to know who is adult and who is a child. I dont blame you for wanting to friend adults only now, I did the same thing long ago.

There does need to be a major distinction between the two groups, and the Happy Hour Lounge and our IM chat do facilitate that. In most of the boss runs that I have been to, the majority of the individuals are adults.


The Dogfather

I respect your opinion, and if the group chooses to go this way, so be it. I'm just one member trying to share what she thinks. I don't know if I feel comfortable enough knowing that the IM chat and this secret forum are the only times I'll be with adults. The chats are so chaotic at times, and while I do enjoy this part of TTC so much, that can't be the only saving grace for me. It's not why I decided to try and become an active member. I joined to friend adults, get to know adults, and play with adults!

I guess I'll just have to keep up with what's going on, and bow to whatever the final decision is. If it's something I'm not okay with then I'll have to think about whether or not I want to remain.

[mildew102]

I think we are going through growing pains. Ever since we caused the mods problems with our IMs, and got our lounge, everything has moved so fast.

Please, can we get a schedule to KOATTA that they can work with. Then, we can have our kids go to their events too. My daughter is too young for an account here on TTC, but she would like to play with a set of people. I think we can get toons to their events, and the problem will start disappearing. Claudia or Steve, will you do this or should one of us PM Dylan the proposed schedule.

[MamaJ]

I understand the confusion. I don't see how we can turn people away from the events, but I also dont see why all the events are now koatta and atta combos. Maybe we can have seperate events? Atta/ koatta combo events, and then atta events. If it is advertised as that maybe then the Koatta ones will see the distinction. If they choose not to there is no way to stop it. Randoms will end up showing, they always do. I remember an Atta DA run, early morning, months ago I went on. We had 5 people show up from Atta then 3 randoms. At the time one of those" randoms" knew nothing about the group. Because one of the randoms happened to be there she found out about Atta, and quickly joined. Sometimes having randoms at events can be a good thing, and a great edition to the group. That person is now an active member with great ideas. My point is really just Atta is Atta, and Koatta is seperate. Many events and runs have randoms, Koatta, and Atta members. The more the merrier!

[The Dogfather]

Originally Posted by AnitaNap

Well I think being "discouraging" about the age of those who join us was kind of the reason the group was started. Correct me if I'm wrong. I realize randoms will most likely show up, but welcoming everyone isn't where I want to go with it. I already help do that with the CCG, this is a different clan, and as such I think there can be different rules.

I guess I'll just have to keep up with what's going on, and bow to whatever the final decision is. If it's something I'm not okay with then I'll have to think about whether or not I want to remain.

This is from own opinion, but discouraging is not the name I would want tagged onto this group, thats why I say I will never turn anyone away that attends our activities.

This group is for adults only, and we welcome any adults, but should kids show up to an event; that within itself will not make me not attend the event or tell them to go away. I personally would never do that to anyone with the exception of griefers. We can advertise adults only, but no matter what we do we will find kids and non-members attending as well.

Originally Posted by mildew102

I think we are going through growing pains. Ever since we caused the mods problems with our IMs, and got our lounge, everything has moved so fast.

Please, can we get a schedule to KOATTA that they can work with. Then, we can have our kids go to their events too.

Growing pains are a must within us all, LOL!!! That is where all the learning is found . I dont mind doing a schedule for them. I will go ahead and PM Dylan so that I can get some feedback from him before making a schedule for them.

Originally Posted by cool crumblepow

I understand the confusion. I don't see how we can turn people away from the events, but I also dont see why all the events are now koatta and atta combos.

We were doing the joint events for this week so as to try and get the kiddos group going and working together. Our regular ATTA only runs will be back after.

The Dogfather

[AnitaNap]

Originally Posted by The Dogfather

This is from own opinion, but discouraging is not the name I would want tagged onto this group, thats why I say I will never turn anyone away that attends our activities.

I'm sorry, I only used "discourage" because that's what was posted before. I put it in quotes because it wasn't the word I would've chosen, but I was trying to relate it to what was said before.

But anyway, I've tried to get my point across and I'll leave it at that. I'm more than happy to help with the joint runs and then just see if things change when KOATTA gets back up and running.

[McBee]

I have to agree with Amy (AnitaNap) on this. I don't understand why all the ATTA runs must accomodate the kids of KOATTA just because their clan isn't a busy clan.


I joined the ATTA with the understanding that it was fully compromised of adults and that those in attendance would be adults. I play with kids all the time on TT and I was really looking forward to our runs knowing that I'd not have to worry about upsetting any children.

I understand that their clan is a little slow right now, but why is it the ATTA's responsibility to get their ball running? If anything the ATTA has gone above and way beyond for the KOATTA, yet I don't see the KOATTA members working half that hard for their very own clan. Why should they though, when they know they can just run with us? I don't blame them one bit and I do not expect them to stop running with the ATTA as their clan gets busier.

Coddling the KOATTA isn't going to help them learn to be independent. It should ultimately be up to them to decide if they want to put the time and effort into their clan to make it productive. If they want a busy clan in the meantime, there are countless exciting clans on the clans subforum.

I see a couple things missing that is probably the reason we are having these problems. Most importantly, I see no mention anywhere on the ATTA run schedule that our runs are for adult ATTA clan members. Perhaps if that was added into the run schedule along with a link pointing kids in the KOATTA subforums and schedule that may make it easier to understand for them.

I don't see what is so harmful in discouraging children from running with the adults on non-koatta runs. Especially if we are kind enough to help them from time to time. That's the way life is. My son could be upset that he can't play alongside his mommy at ATTA runs, but at least he's learning an important life lesson.

IMO we need crystal clear guidelines and schedules so that all are informed and less assumptions are made. I think a very good compromise is to have an additonal run once or twice a week where ATTA members are encouraged to help out the KOATTA build their clan. I also think its a wonderful idea to have one super-special joint event each month (or even twice a month), such as thug runs or other special events where both groups can come together. I do not think its a good idea to combine both groups for every run. If so you're going to run into some grumpy ATTA members, and honestly I'll be one. I want to be assured of all-adult runs. That's why I joined the ATTA.

JMHO and possibly unpopular opinion.

Carmen

[The Dogfather]

Originally Posted by AnitaNap

I'm sorry, I only used "discourage" because that's what was posted before. I put it in quotes because it wasn't the word I would've chosen, but I was trying to relate it to what was said before.

But anyway, I've tried to get my point across and I'll leave it at that. I'm more than happy to help with the joint runs and then just see if things change when KOATTA gets back up and running.

Oh no worries, its good to put in opinion because thats what helps any group grow better. The way I like to see it is that the ATTA encourages adults to attend, rather than discouraging kids from attending.

Our schedule will be back to normal soon to adults only LOL. Its just nice for parents to be able to bring their kids once in a while for some joint runs, plus this might help bring more attention to KOATTA to help them on their way.


The Dogfather

[McBee]

Originally Posted by The Dogfather

Our schedule will be back to normal soon to adults only LOL. Its just nice for parents to be able to bring their kids once in a while for some joint runs, plus this might help bring more attention to KOATTA to help them on their way.


The Dogfather

Steve you say that the schedule will be back to normal after the joint runs, but how is that any different than a joint run? If you are so fearful of hurting the koatta's feelings by telling them that they need to only attend joint runs, then every run the ATTA has will be joint because the kids will make it so.

Carmen

[The Dogfather]

Originally Posted by McBee

I have to agree with Amy (AnitaNap) on this. I don't understand why all the ATTA runs must accomodate the kids of KOATTA just because their clan isn't a busy clan.

No one ever said this is the set schedule now, this is the schedule for this weekend only. After that its back to normal. Thats why I put special weekend on the boss runs.

Originally Posted by McBee

Coddling the KOATTA isn't going to help them learn to be independent.

Not helping them wont get them going either. Just jump starting them is what all this is about and never to drive them around.

Originally Posted by McBee

I see a couple things missing that is probably the reason we are having these problems. Most importantly, I see no mention anywhere on the ATTA run schedule that our runs are for adult ATTA clan members.

I have a title that reads only ATTA Boss Battle runs which I will put on after the end of this weekend. Also, once this weekend is over I will add that these runs are meant to favor adults.

Originally Posted by McBee

Steve you say that the schedule will be back to normal after the joint runs, but how is that any different than a joint run? If you are so fearful of hurting the koatta's feelings by telling them that they need to only attend joint runs, then every run the ATTA has will be joint because the kids will make it so.

Carmen

Its different because we are not inviting them to the next ones. On any of the last boss runs we have had, how many kids have attended? Not many at all. On a CJ a few weeks ago, all were adults and we all were on IM chat. The CFO too, since we started using IM chat I have pretty much only seen adults attend. I dont know how things are going with other events because I usually dont have much time to attend many events, but from the boss runs I have attended its been adults.


The Dogfather

[canadianloonie]

I don't mind playing with kids...they all way better players than Simba anyway!

Kidding aside, I agree with Claudia that there has to be some transition. Everything has been going at warp speed here and I feel if we give it just this weekend we can take it a step at a time after that. Things will get to where we want them we just have to be a bit patient.

Tracy

[Buster the Bear]

Originally Posted by canadianloonie

I don't mind playing with kids...they all way better players than Simba anyway!

Kidding aside, I agree with Claudia that there has to be some transition. Everything has been going at warp speed here and I feel if we give it just this weekend we can take it a step at a time after that. Things will get to where we want them we just have to be a bit patient.

Tracy

Dont think i cudda said it any better Tracy. It will take time to get everything sorted out.

[Domino Loopenmarble]

First of all,

The founder of KOATTA is currently MIA and her mother the founder of ATTA is also MIA due to major computer problems.
When Cherie (our founder) asked me to keep ATTA moving forward she also asked me to lend a hand to KOATTA, Crystal (koatta founder) did the same. I CANT let them down. I am sorry if this upsets anyone here. These two ladies are dear friends on mine and I love them dearly.
I am the type of person that keeps their word, like I posted previously there will be a transistion period for KOATTA and I will have a talk with Luke and Dylan to see what ideas they have in mind for their group. Dont forget these are kids, sometimes kids need guidance from us adults.

I dont think its fair for us to say well.. we have our own private forum now, our group has gotten bigger, we pretty much have no time for you all anymore and we dont want you guys to come to our events.. hmm that there just doesnt sound nice to me at all.

Claudia

[mildew102]

To those who love the adult-ness of our group: I haven't heard any posters say they wanted to change that.

To those who want to help KOATTA get going again: members understand your position, but they don't want to lose the adult-ness of our group.

To all members: please continue to be patient through this phase. We have had SO much fun together. I have never enjoyed playing Toontown so much. I desperately want this group to succeed and continue to have a blast with them.

Hopefully, KOATTA will have their own schedule before next weekend. We can send our kids and our support to those activities. We will continue to host joint activities.

Patience and humor will help us thrive.