Uneven Loading...

[Pinkersmirk]

These past few months for the CFO I have been one of those who is one of the last few to enter the lobby sometimes a few mins after the hour. Last night my good friend Silly Goopy urged me to go in on time for a change. I did and ended up sided with 3 toons that I have never played with. I thought for sure they were randoms but looking over previous battles see that they have been playing with us for quite a while.

From what I have observed at least for those who have been around a while tend to wait as long as possible to enter sometimes several minutes after the hour. Those new to the group leave a few mins before or right on the hour.
It seems to me that "we" need to make more of an effort to balance the loads. Would really like to see what everyone thinks on this subject. Any suggestions?



Good Example of a even load:


Oct. 22, 2005 Sunday 8:00PM Central
8/8 Danced for Soggy Nell
Queen MoMo Dizzynoodle 113 HW
*Ricky 111 HW50
Mommy H. Mouse 64 CC
*Daddy H. Mouse 64 CC
+*Popcorn Cheezytwist 64 CC
+Violet Jumbledorf 106 HW
+Princess Rainbow 55 MS
+Deputy Monty 117 HW50



Not so good:

Oct. 21, 2005 Friday Midnight Central
5/5 Danced for Moe Zart
+*Dizzy Twinklemuffin 116 HW50
+*Colonel Coconut Cheezytoes 112 HW30
+Kool Kat 112 HW50
Sir Igor Megatoon 117 HW50
*Princess Lefty Wonderwoof 117 HW50


Oct. 21, 2005 Friday Midnight Central

6/6 Danced for CFO Run
+Princess Daphne Sparklemuffin 109 BC
+Freckles Preciousface 117 RB50
+Master Corky Crunchycorn 117 RB40
Violet Jumbledorf 106 BC
Moonshadow 118 RB50
Deputy Monty 117 RB50



Oct. 21, 2005 Friday Midnight Central
8/8 Danced for Doctor Drift
+*Princess Kala 106 HW
+*Freckles Preciousface 117 HW50
+*Master Corky Crunchycorn 117 HW50
+*Violet Jumbledorf 106 MNG
Yahoo Furball 108 HW20
Princess Poppy Petalpop 113 HW40
Little Chunky Wackyseed 55 CC
Greeneggs 46 CC



Oct. 23, 2005 Sunday 8:00PM Central
8/8 Danced for CFO Run

+Dizzy Twinklemuffin 116 RB50
+Blinky Nickelmouth 71 RB10
+Duck Tape 72 TW
+Little Spike Twinkletoon 115 RB50
princess kitty 116 RB50
Master Knuckles Trickytoon 116 RB50
Silly Goopy 117 RB50
Sonic 113 RB50


Oct. 23, 2005 Sunday 8:00PM Central
8/8 Danced for CFO Run

+Silly Salty Doggenklunk RB50
+Good Ol Zig Zag Jabbertoon RB50
Banana Brains LS
Luke WarmWater
Princess Lefty Wonderwoof RB50
+Pinkersmirk RB50
Laddy Cuddles RB
Unknown



Oct. 24, 2005 Monday 9:00PM Central

8/8 Danced for CFO Run
+Crazy Orville Bumbleberry 105 SC
+Little Tootsie Roll 112 RB20
+Freckles Preciousface 117 RB40
+Moonshadow 118 RB50
Dippy Peppy Bizzenflapper RB50
Sir Igor Megatoon RB50
Sonic RB50
Crazy Batty Kookypounce RB50



Result of Uneven Loads:

Oct 22 at 2100 CST (9pm): 0/8 Danced for CFO

Aunt B.D. Bagelbee TW6
Diji NC9 (me)
Good ol' Penny Fiddlesplat TW3
King Bongo Fizzlenugget BC4
Oswald Pepperfish NC9
Oswald Pickleburger NC5
Tricky Wildgadget SC2
Violet Jumbledorf BC6



Oct. 23, 2005 Sunday 8:00PM Central
4/8 Danced for Flippy
Granny Pickles 117 HW50
Vegas Duck 53 TM
Gorgeous 89 TM
*Violet 55 TM -- Sad in Skele Round
Dog gonnit 96 TM
*Lady..... TM -- Sad in Skele Round
*Prof. 48 TM -- Sad in Skele Round
*Buzz 54 CC -- Sad in Skele Round



Oct. 23, 2005 Sunday 3:00 PM Central
0/6 Danced for Other
Mommy H. Mouse -- Sad in Cog Round
Annette Toonicello -- Sad in Cog Round
Captain Popcorn Hucklegoober -- Sad in Cog Round
Dippy Fuzzyface -- F4'd to Save Merits
Princess Rainbow -- F4'd to Save Merits
Princess Marigold Topplehoffer -- F4'd to Save Merits



Oct. 23, 2005 Sunday 3:00 PM Central
0/8 Danced for Baker Bridget
+*Mousewife 52 MS -- Sad in Skele Round
+*McZilla 43 CC -- Sad in Skele Round
+Carrot Cake 58 TM -- Disconnected
+Anita Firehydrant 52 -- Sad in Skele Round
*Noisy Cricket Electrohopper 65 TM -- Sad in Skele Round
Squeaky 25 -- Sad in Skele Round
Duke Lancelot Weaselburger 79 -- Sad in Skele Round
Good ol' Scooter Whistlepop 85 -- Sad in Skele Round



Oct. 24, 2005 Monday 9:00PM Central
5/8 Danced for LOM

+*Ugly Duckling 113 HW50
+*Super Noob 34 TM -- Sad in Skele Round
+Greeneggs 46 CC
+Chuckles 106 MS
Queen Pancake Fizzlehopper 25 HW10 -- Sad in Skele
*Some Duck 34 HW10
*Baby Duck Egg 35 TM -- Sad in Skele
Dopey 60 CC

[GrannyPickles]

This maybe why we hear the word cliquey used, it's far from cliqueish, but with so many strong toons wanting to be the helpful ones to hang back, or do clean up duty, or give small toons their chance to get on a run, I think it results in uneven loads and rumors of cliques. If we leave only 1 or 2 strong toons to hang back for clean up duty and the rest high tail it into the lobby to see where they can be best needed we may get better results, and see less loses, lots more dancing! I'm hopeful this can change, because most of the strong toons who hang back ARE very helpful CCG loving toons, and really have everyone's best interest in mind. Take a week to try to load in earlier loads and lets see the results. I bet it'll get us all back to happy dancing again.

[Silly Goopy]

Very true. Most maxxed toons do wait as I understand it because they don't need the promotion. However, the toons that need the most help tend to load early because they don't want to be left behind. It might be more helpful to the inexperienced ones if maxxed toons go inside the lobby at different times and not all the same time, usually a few minutes after the hour as what is happening now.

Originally Posted by GrannyPickles

This maybe why we hear the word cliquey used, it's far from cliqueish, but with so many strong toons wanting to be the helpful ones to hang back, or do clean up duty, or give small toons their chance to get on a run, I think it results in uneven loads and rumors of cliques. If we leave only 1 or 2 strong toons to hang back for clean up duty and the rest high tail it into the lobby to see where they can be best needed we may get better results, and see less loses, lots more dancing! I'm hopeful this can change, because most of the strong toons who hang back ARE very helpful CCG loving toons, and really have everyone's best interest in mind. Take a week to try to load in earlier loads and lets see the results. I bet it'll get us all back to happy dancing again.

[Cool Spike]

I usualy wait until the biggest group is leaving. Most of the time I'm right in the croud. But still uneven loading is happening. Like yesterday, when I went up the stairs to fight the VP. I saw an elevator with only seven and nobody making an attempt to load. I didn't look at names nor at suits, but jumped in shortly before the timer went to 0.
When the door opened again I noticed who was in the group:

+*Little Bubbles Bananaberry 114 HW
+Silly Salty Doggenklunk 115 HW
+*Cool spike 110 HW
+Miss Micestro 50 TM

*Crab E. Dawg 26 HW
*Violet Jumbledorf 106 HW
Scottt 104
Master Knuckles Trickytoon 116 HW50

Was that an easy win? Sure it was. And it would have been an easy win for every cold caller who could have loaded instead of me. I would have rather gone helping a group of little guys, though it was a lot of fun.

So, why did nobody load with 5 Hollies?

[Pinkersmirk]

You know I was wondering the same thing for this run. There were quite a few small suits right outside the door who didn't want to load with us. The names I saw were not members that run with us often. I really hate to say this but it could be that myself and Mr. Dawg were on this load with our low laff stinky selfs. I know not everyone thinks that way but there are quite a few who do who are still new to the VP.

I have to also agree with Di. Yes we do have a few groups of friends who stand back in order to try to load together. My friends know me well enough to know that once I enter the doors I am going straight to the elevator and loading up regardless of if I am on my 117 or my 62 laffer. Monty was the one who taught me a long time ago that this is the only "fair" way to load up. I don't stop and check out the laff/suits on board to see if I have a better chance of winning. In many cases I didn't win because of this but I don't go in expecting to win I go in expecting to have FUN win or lose!

Originally Posted by Cool Spike

I usualy wait until the biggest group is leaving. Most of the time I'm right in the croud. But still uneven loading is happening. Like yesterday, when I went up the stairs to fight the VP. I saw an elevator with only seven and nobody making an attempt to load. I didn't look at names nor at suits, but jumped in shortly before the timer went to 0.
When the door opened again I noticed who was in the group:

+*Little Bubbles Bananaberry 114 HW
+Silly Salty Doggenklunk 115 HW
+*Cool spike 110 HW
+Miss Micestro 50 TM

*Crab E. Dawg 26 HW
*Violet Jumbledorf 106 HW
Scottt 104
Master Knuckles Trickytoon 116 HW50

Was that an easy win? Sure it was. And it would have been an easy win for every cold caller who could have loaded instead of me. I would have rather gone helping a group of little guys, though it was a lot of fun.

So, why did nobody load with 5 Hollies?

[Zaphod]

Hmmmm. Back in the day, Z man used to stand in the lobby and direct one of a small group of very high level suits to take the lead position in each elevator. That ensured at least one good stunner with maxed gags in each group. Well balanced elevators were the norm, but exceptions did occur.

As the guild grew, this became unworkable. The confusion in the lobby was just too great, and the stress on Z man had to be huge.

Maybe we could work something like this back in for the CFO, maybe with a rotating Director instead of just dumping it on one toon like Z man? The number of toons doing guild runs in the CFO is not quite as small as the numbers of toons back in the first days doing the VP, but this may be workable for the CFO.

The VP, however, is just out of control. The proliferation of ubers in high suits and the sheer number of toons attending each run make orginazation difficult.

Perhaps we could move the waiting point to the lobby floor from the pit? that would give those who like to wait back a better vantage point to assess the needs of the group as a whole.

Or we could just keep doing what we are doing. Hard to argue with our overall resuts!

[Rattlebones]

results are skewed by the fact that a lot of runs are likely not reported.
There was a time this summer I sat in the lobby with an unknown toon watching the loads. IIRC I watched 10 loads and saw 4 reports. So unless everyone reports, the numbers we love to quote are simply the reported run results... me, when I report I report the good, the bad and the ugly, doesn't matter.

[Pinkersmirk]

RB,

I understand what you are saying about the "numbers" may be varied according to what is reported. My intention was not to compare the amount of wins vs losses it was to show examples of what I have seen and been a part of lately. Also a couple of the runs below I took off of TTC that were reported here by non-members.

It seems to me if we all do our part to even the loads we will not only help those new to the group but also at the same time help with the perception that we are cliquish as many below have stated.

Originally Posted by Rattlebones

results are skewed by the fact that a lot of runs are likely not reported.
There was a time this summer I sat in the lobby with an unknown toon watching the loads. IIRC I watched 10 loads and saw 4 reports. So unless everyone reports, the numbers we love to quote are simply the reported run results... me, when I report I report the good, the bad and the ugly, doesn't matter.

[Kehawin]

Originally Posted by Zaphod

Hmmmm. Back in the day, Z man used to stand in the lobby and direct one of a small group of very high level suits to take the lead position in each elevator. That ensured at least one good stunner with maxed gags in each group. Well balanced elevators were the norm, but exceptions did occur.

Back then, it was also almost unheard of for a run to go unreported. Lately (Since re-joining the ccg after a year hiatus) I have noticed many of the runs ending in sadualties went unreported.

Originally Posted by pinkersmirk

From what I have observed at least for those who have been around a while tend to wait as long as possible to enter sometimes several minutes after the hour...It seems to me that "we" need to make more of an effort to balance the loads

I too noticed this, Pinkersmirk, which is why I will run into the lobby as soon as it appears ANYONE is ready, and load directly onto the elevator if there is space (and of course if there are at least 6 in the lobby as opposed to 3)...
If I find myself running late thinking "man I am late, I wonder if anyone is still there?" usually I find LOTS of people still there, doing what they do. In that case, I will hang back and wait for those straggling even further behind than myself so that there is at least one toon with experience for the last official run.

I think perhaps that this very situation is where ccg frustrations arise. I know for myself, you hit the nail on the head... For me, when I go with the early group, it is a much more difficult battle, it is often not reported unless I do so myself, and later I will read report threads and think facetiously, "imagine THEM being in together AGAIN".

To be fair, I know that sometimes on late runs you end up with friends because you recruit from your friends list if the run is short a toon or two. Also, sometimes people are in the last run or two because they are waiting on a friend from their list who is runnng late so that that friend can teleport to them.

Like Di, I have always run with the ccg because I wanted to share the thrill of winning with toons who otherwise would still be shuffling in the lobby. I know lately it has been said that the purpose of the ccg was simply to stop the shuffle, that a win is not guaranteed nor even necessarily the goal... but I do have to point out that if that were true, there would be no "ccg strategy" (isn't the point of offering the best strategy exactly so there is the best chance of winning?) and results would have NEVER been reported and tabulated. TO me, and I think many others, joinng the ccg wasn't about joining to become well-known, it wasn't about joining to martyr ones self, it was about showing new toons that with good teamwork, the VP was easy enough that it wasn't NECESSARY to be a suit snob. The ccg was successful not because of the lack of shuffle (though that is definitely a plus) but because toons could have a chance at WINNING without a shuffle. Anyway, I know that seems off topic, but I think it pertains. Just as the CCG has changed very much since the early days, I think so has the goals.

Here's what I used to think the CCg stood for:
1) giving all toons a fair chance at the VP, without having to find online friends to help them - without the aggravation and time comsumption of a shuffle.
2) mentoring of inexperienced toons by experienced toons

My perspective of what the CCg's goals NOW seem to be is:
1) comraderie
2) scheduled runs
Notice the shuffle isn't mentioned above at all... that's because for the most part, the shuffle has gone away in the busy districts except on weekends and late afternoon. The only time I do a run with randoms where there is problem with shuffle (other than really peak times) the shuffle is because one or two don't want to go without a full elevator. And, as has been mentioned numerous times lately, the ccg now sometimes has problems of their own with shuffle, and the reason has not been identified.

Anyway, back on topic... Yes, Pink, I think it is a VERY good idea that some of the well-known names of the ccg stagger their entries onto the elevators and try doubly hard to take toons they don't play with often... OR, as Zap said, gather in the lobby again (the pit gathering apparently started within the last year when I was building Moonshadow outside the ccg) and use either a director or the honor system to balance the loads.

-Kehawin (aka Little Miss Unpopular Opinion)

[Violet bagel]

Thanks so much for bringing this up, Pink. It's terrific that you took the time to document this and bring it to the attention of the group.

FWIW, I think the level of reporting has gone way up since August, when I posted my concerns about not enough runs being reported. I posted my original concerns before going away on a 10-day vacation. Before I left, I looked at the Victories list on the old CCG website and saw somewhere between 10-30 victories listed over a three week period. After my return, I went back to the same Victories list, and there were still 10-30 victories listed--but they were over a several DAY period, not a several week period. And it seems like the reporting level has been higher since then, although I could be very wrong about this.

Anyway, back to Pink's concerns.....I like the idea of more big suits going in earlier and helping with the elevator loading, and I think it could be very helpful, especially in the VP.

The VP and CFO lobbies are so gigantic.....Has anyone ever experimented with forming parties within the lobby? Seems like players could congregate in different corners and assemble full parties of 8 without going near the elevator doors, then take turns marching up to the doors and going in. Big suit players could take charge of building a party--perhaps by whispering "This Way" or "Can you teleport to me?" to different toons to build the party. Maybe this has already been tried and ruled out....just brainstorming here.

Back to work,
Violet B.

[Pinkersmirk]

Ok I will be quiet after this lol. Well Maybe!! I for one don't want to see the gathering in the pit go away. I like the fun that we have before the run it is the best part for me and seems to get everyone pumped up before the run starts.
Also IMO it seems to me if we go into the CFO/VP lobby and try to gather you will have those urging us to load early which will cause new problems. Maybe we could agree to enter 10mins before run time and hang out at the bottom of the stairs?

[Loopy Nickleswirl]

Originally Posted by Pinkersmirk

Ok I will be quiet after this lol. Well Maybe!! I for one don't want to see the gathering in the pit go away. I like the fun that we have before the run it is the best part for me and seems to get everyone pumped up before the run starts.
Also IMO it seems to me if we go into the CFO/VP lobby and try to gather you will have those urging us to load early which will cause new problems. Maybe we could agree to enter 10mins before run time and hang out at the bottom of the stairs?

I agree, I love the gathering in the pit. I have noticed that more often than not, the stinking has been going on for at least several minutes past the hour. I think we get so involved that we don't realize its getting late. We need a big toon whistle to remind everyone that it is time to go load

I for one will start making an attempt to head in a little earlier from now on

[Lady Googlebrains]

When I've been going based on the schedule, it says loading starts no sooner than 5 minutes before the hour. So I always assumed once it got to 5 minutes til, it was OK to start loading. Since I'm there, I usually try to jump on as soon as an elevator starts loading up and never check gags & laff.

Sounds like I (and my kids) should wait until on the hour before we start loading to help increase our chances of having a more balanced run?

Should what the schedule says change as far as when to start loading?

Lady Googlebrains/Lady Calculus/Weirdo Wolfie

[Dawggie]

Originally Posted by Pinkersmirk

It seems to me that "we" need to make more of an effort to balance the loads. Would really like to see what everyone thinks on this subject. Any suggestions?

It seems to me that this one would be really difficult to control.

Of the runs that I can make it to, I now observe the crowds and try to see how the stronger toons load. If I notice alot of the stronger ones hanging back, then I will go in before them to try to help with the load balancing by packing on with a group needing a bigger toons' presence. Generally, when I enter the lobby, I head straight for the elevator and board on the first available spot.

I guess another question would be should the bigger suits load first or wait and allow others to board first? I think we all know that standing back and observing in and of itself can and does cause elevator shuffle if the elevator is packed with toons of lower confidence in their own abilities. So again, this is a tough call.

Originally Posted by Rattlebones

results are skewed by the fact that a lot of runs are likely not reported.
There was a time this summer I sat in the lobby with an unknown toon watching the loads. IIRC I watched 10 loads and saw 4 reports. So unless everyone reports, the numbers we love to quote are simply the reported run results... me, when I report I report the good, the bad and the ugly, doesn't matter.

Yep, I'd have to agree whole heartedly on this point.

I make it a point to report all runs that I'm on as soon as possible (unless someone posts first) regardless of the results.

It's not a terribly time consuming task to take a few screenies at the very least. If one wants to go the extra step, they can add laff points and commentary as well.

[Zaphod]

Just a thought, but did anyone ever consider that the huge gathering in the pit or in front of the doors might be attracting the random non guilder and thereby contributing to the dreaded shuffle?
Another reason to consider a move inside?