CCG : Cashbot CFO Strategy Guide

[WizardHawk]

I wrote up a general guide in the Cog HQ forum (now a sticky thread) to help introduce newer players to what to expect in the CFO battle. I attempted to stay away from any real discussion about strategy in there because the best strategy was such a huge argument on test.

The group I ran with on test were the very first team to beat the CFO and we were the first team to beat it consistantly. We wound up with a VERY high percentage rate of victory and our system was designed to help make sure ALL 8 went on to victory. There will no doubt be someone that argues with this system but the results speak for itself. All of us made Robber Baron 50 pretty fast.

This system is called the Zone Defense System.

The basics:
The game pairs you with another toon and drops you both into one of four zones in the CFO battle room. One of you will become the crane operator and the other will defend that crane. In our experience we discovered that proper stomping defense of the crane operators is the main difference between a win and loss on a run. It is the chaos of toons running around in an every-toon-for-themself kind of fasion that destroys a run. Stay and battle in your zone and you will increase your odds of winning.

Roles:
The natural thought many have is to put your best players on crane. Problem is, it is the stompers that have the most influence on winning so making sure you have at least a couple of really good toons there may be key. The crane is much easier to learn then the good crane operators would like others to believe. Having one or two good crane people and at least a couple of good stompers should make sure you all come out alive. According to the basics, you should stick with the pair you land with. The problem is what if both toons in one zone are natural stompers? What about a toon that has asked to try crane that is dropped with another crane operator? It is ok to swap zones to get everyone in their best role, however YOU MUST WIND UP WITH 2 IN EACH ZONE.

Cranes:
Rule #1: NEVER THROW A SAFE AT THE CFO UNLESS HE HAS STARS AROUND HIS HEAD OR ALREADY HAS A HELMET ON. If you see someone throwing safes at the wrong time, let them know with the speed chat phrases.

Not only are the cranes responsible for doing the damage to the CFO, but they are at least partially responsible for their own defense and the defense of the stompers. You can pick up live goons and move them toward the stompers to help move ones that are too close to you or help with clusters of goons. You can also drop a safe on nearby goons or to help clean out your area if there are a large number of goons there. You will not win if you allow swarms of goons to remain in your area.

Rule #2: NEVER ALLOW MORE THAN 3 SAFES IN YOUR ZONE AND KEEP ALL SAFES AWAY FROM THE CFO'S TREADS. The CFO can pick up safes near it and put it on as a helmet. Keep them away from him and help make sure everyone has a safe by getting rid of some if you have 4 or more in your zone. You can get rid of them by tossing them sideways into your neighbors zone.

A word about safes: What most of the experienced crane operators do is find a time early where you have no goons to toss to move one of your two safes in front of you. The proper location for it is slightly off to the side away from the CFO's door so that you have a clear path for picking up goons and fairly close to your crane podium. Remember that the CFO can pick up safes near him and use them as helmets. The safe you drop in front will be used for ONLY ONE OF TWO RESONS: Hit the CFO when stunned, or drop on goons to defend yourself. If the CFO winds up with a helmet, use any other safe in your zone to remove it since you have plenty of time to do it. This front safe works very well for damage on a stunned CFO because you are already lined up with the CFO when you pick it up. One full swing back, and forward and let go. If you let go a little lower (around the chest area, or a little higher) you can make the safe bounce off of him and land back in your zone. This is one way you can help make sure you do not run out of safes.

In the end game, the CFO will have a flashing red light showing that you are close to victory. The problem with getting the last hit in is that as you get that far, he gets helmets almost as fast as you can take them off. It is best to have two cranes work together to win. One needs to attempt to take the helmet off, and the other needs to have a stunned goon on crane ready to go. You may only get one good shot at it so make it count!

Rule #3: YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN LP LEVEL. DO NOT WAIT TO TOON YOURSELF. I've seen too many very good players go sad because they waited to heal themselves. If you are lucky and have good stompers around you, you may find toonup treasures near you. Go toonup really fast after taking a gear hit or light hit. Don't worry about losing your crane, just stay healthy!

Rule #4: YOU ARE NOT GLUED TO YOUR CRANE, MOVE WHEN NEEDED. This means you may have to stomp goons in your area if your stomper runs off or goes sad. You should also watch the CFO and be ready to step aside if he targets you. You have plenty of time to move so don't panic. Run around and toon up as soon as you take damage, then jump back to your crane.

Stompers:
Rule #1: YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEFENSE OF THE CRANE IN YOUR ZONE. This does not mean you cannot go to other zones to help out, it means you need to always keep an eye on your home zone and be ready to move to defend it.

Rule #2: DON'T BE AFRAID OF STEPPING INTO THE LIGHTS. You can, and should, step into the lights of goons if you cannot jump them in time to prevent them from getting to the cranes. In general, you will lose around twice as much as the current value of toonup treasures coming out. It is also VERY IMPORTANT to understand that once you step into any light, you are immune to other lights for a short time! This means you can jump into the middle of a cluster and just stomp as fast as you can and only worry about taking one hit. You will do more damage by always trying to go around a goon to stomp it then by just taking a hit and getting that one down faster.

Rule #3: ATTEMPT TO LEAVE TOONUP TREASURES THAT ARE CLOSE TO CRANES FOR THE CRANE OPERATORS. That doesn't mean leave them if that is all that is left and you are injured. You are totally responsible for your own health. Worry about YOU first, and your crane operator second. The crane operator can stomp a few goons if they need treasures and none are around. Having said that, treasure farming is one of the things that seperates the good stompers from the great ones.

Rule #4: IN THE END GAME, ABANDON ANY ZONE THAT IS TOO INFESTED WITH GOONS. Both the crane operator, and the stomper should bail. You can either reinforce other zones, or slowly clean up that zone. What is most important is to have at least TWO well defended zones and to make sure they each have safes and disabled goons. Failure to keep a couple of defended zones near the end WILL RESULT IN TOTAL TEAM LOSS.

Beyond that, one more important thing a great stomper can do to help the team is pay attention to what the cranes and CFO are doing. If you notice that the cranes are having problems removing a helmet, go up and run into one of his treads. You will only take a -1 damage but he will 'sit down' to try to swipe at you. When he sits it is much easier for your cranes to take his helmet off.

This system does NOT require all 8 to be aware of it for it to work. Our experiments found that having even two or three strangers were not enough to kill this system provided that everyone helped cover the areas being neglected by those strangers. It even works with as few as 4 or 5 toons going into the battle.

I'll let you all decide the merits of this system and whether it is something you wish to adopt to help all of the newer players to learn this battle.

[SLPedalhopper]

Stupid but important question. Once your on the crane how do you get off? Im sure Matta Harry or whatever his name is explained this but he talks so fast I dont remember any of what he said.

Got stuck on an unmanned crane while trying to stomp a goon the other night. The goon fried me 2 or 3 times before I somehow managed to step away from the crane.

[Super Thundercrash]

There is an X on the lower right hand side that says Leave Crane. Click it and you are free to roam around.

I'm not so sure if the CFO picks up safes to put on his head or not. I've only seen them come from the ceiling. I agree with the system as I've used it and seen it used before. Seems to be the best strategy so far. When the wife and I play with one of our friends, who is a goonie stomper extrodinare, we use this system or a version like it. We are usually on Ventrilo at the time and this seems to help alot. I'll be on a crane and so will the wife. Our friend will be stunning goonies and we can call on her to help if they are starting to swarm one area. One more TIP: IF YOU RELEASE A SAFE NOT MEANING TO, QUICKLY PRESS CONTROL KEY YOU WILL GET THE SAFE BACK. Works also if you hit him with the safe to do damage. Just use the same safe again. HEE HEE

[WizardHawk]

This system works well for GROUPS and is not meant for toons to employ on random runs with strangers. It is flexable enough to allow 2-4 random strangers on the run and still have some effect.

The more I do the CFO (Robber 50 on test, Tightwad on open) the more I'm convinced that it is the role of the stompers that make the difference between win and loss. Even if you have toons that keep on tossing safes on the CFO's head, you only make the run longer if the stompers are still protecting the cranes and farming treasures.

The crane is easy to learn and master, stomping can be much more difficult to master.

[Rattlebones]

Do we want this added to our strategy (mostly for those CCG Elder members who have test)...?

[andrew]

Originally Posted by WizardHawk

A word about safes: What most of the experienced crane operators do is find a time early where you have no goons to toss to move one of your two safes in front of you. The proper location for it is slightly off to the side away from the CFO's door so that you have a clear path for picking up goons and fairly close to your crane podium. Remember that the CFO can pick up safes near him and use them as helmets. The safe you drop in front will be used for ONLY ONE OF TWO RESONS: Hit the CFO when stunned, or drop on goons to defend yourself. If the CFO winds up with a helmet, use any other safe in your zone to remove it since you have plenty of time to do it. This front safe works very well for damage on a stunned CFO because you are already lined up with the CFO when you pick it up. One full swing back, and forward and let go. If you let go a little lower (around the chest area, or a little higher) you can make the safe bounce off of him and land back in your zone. This is one way you can help make sure you do not run out of safes.

I have found a better location is to have the safes located directly behind the crane operator. This serves 3 purposes.

1st - Eash to pick up on a back swing after hitting the CFO with a goonie and allows for a quicker attack with a safe on a newly stunned CFO.
2nd - Keeps the area behind the crane operator free of goonies which can land there if tossed by other crane operators. Allows the crane operator to focus on area in front and to the side of them.
3rd - It is less likely to accidently pick up a safe when trying to get a stunned goonie if the safe is behind you and out of the way.

[WizardHawk]

Originally Posted by Peach Cat

I have found a better location is to have the safes located directly behind the crane operator. This serves 3 purposes.

1st - Eash to pick up on a back swing after hitting the CFO with a goonie and allows for a quicker attack with a safe on a newly stunned CFO.
2nd - Keeps the area behind the crane operator free of goonies which can land there if tossed by other crane operators. Allows the crane operator to focus on area in front and to the side of them.
3rd - It is less likely to accidently pick up a safe when trying to get a stunned goonie if the safe is behind you and out of the way.

I have tried that method but prefer the front one for the reasons stated. As long as people get the idea to manage their zone and the resources in it the actual methods can be worked out.

One of the reasons I like the safes in front is toward the end game when swarms happen, it is nice to have barriers that can force them to turn around and leave your area. It is also quicker to pick and drop to kill goons around the front of your zone.

Sounds like you at least manage your zone so hats off to you.

Do we want this added to our strategy (mostly for those CCG Elder members who have test)...?

Not sure what the question is really. This strategy is for the NEW players on open who are trying to figure out how to defeat the CFO on a consistant basis. Those from test are past the beginning strategy ideas and are more likely to be able to roll with whatever comes. Don't add it for advanced players, add it for those needing to learn how to win here.

Having clearly defined roles is what allowed us to master this fight and I am passing on to you what we did to get there. Knowing to stay in your zone, protect the crane at all costs, stepping into lights is ok because you become immune for a few seconds, and the other ideas for the newer CFO'er will greatly enhance the likelyhood of victory.

If not THIS strategy, then I still suggest you need to adopt SOME strategy so that the majority of people on your runs are on the same page. Otherwise you will find more losses then wins. You have a formulated strategy for the Sell VP (such as lure left/kill right to protect smaller toons) and this fight is no different. The more knowledge people have going into it, the more the chance of winning goes up.

Ask anyone here who has been on a losing run. You will hear that it appeared to be an every-toon-for-themself kind of thing with toons running around trying to toon themselves at all costs and no one really working on getting the CFO finished. All it takes is for a couple of stompers to stay with their crane at the end, and a couple of crane operators that can knock off a helmet and get a stunned goon in to win. Learning these roles will set that up.

Good Luck either way. I intend on joining some CCG runs in the CFO when I have a chance. I have enjoyed the runs I have been on with brand new CFO'ers and look forward to helping any of you.

[King Beany]

Originally Posted by WizardHawk

All it takes is for a couple of stompers to stay with their crane at the end, and a couple of crane operators that can knock off a helmet and get a stunned goon in to win.

In all of my losses, this appears to be the deciding factor. The panic mode that sets in right at the least few seconds.

KBB

[WizardHawk]

Originally Posted by King Beany

In all of my losses, this appears to be the deciding factor. The panic mode that sets in right at the least few seconds.

KBB

Exactly. I came to this system after failed attempt upon failed attempt at a time when we all still believed that the CFO battle could not be won. I took a detailed look at WHY we were failing. It wasn't because we have bad players, it wasn't that we didn't all want to help each other, it was that everyone needed to clearly understand their purpose at that most critical point. By learning the zone defense you are naturally learning what it takes to beat him with those last few hits. I don't care how many go sad or how much chaos there is, you can still beat it if you can get one or two to protect a crane or two for just 20 seconds. Everyone just needs to learn how to fall back and defend the cleanest of the zones that still has at least one safe and a stunned goon.

[andrew]

Originally Posted by WizardHawk

Stompers:
Rule #1: YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEFENSE OF THE CRANE IN YOUR ZONE. This does not mean you cannot go to other zones to help out, it means you need to always keep an eye on your home zone and be ready to move to defend it.

Rule #2: DON'T BE AFRAID OF STEPPING INTO THE LIGHTS. You can, and should, step into the lights of goons if you cannot jump them in time to prevent them from getting to the cranes. In general, you will lose around twice as much as the current value of toonup treasures coming out. It is also VERY IMPORTANT to understand that once you step into any light, you are immune to other lights for a short time! This means you can jump into the middle of a cluster and just stomp as fast as you can and only worry about taking one hit. You will do more damage by always trying to go around a goon to stomp it then by just taking a hit and getting that one down faster.

Rule #3: ATTEMPT TO LEAVE TOONUP TREASURES THAT ARE CLOSE TO CRANES FOR THE CRANE OPERATORS. That doesn't mean leave them if that is all that is left and you are injured. You are totally responsible for your own health. Worry about YOU first, and your crane operator second. The crane operator can stomp a few goons if they need treasures and none are around. Having said that, treasure farming is one of the things that seperates the good stompers from the great ones.

Rule #4: IN THE END GAME, ABANDON ANY ZONE THAT IS TOO INFESTED WITH GOONS. Both the crane operator, and the stomper should bail. You can either reinforce other zones, or slowly clean up that zone. What is most important is to have at least TWO well defended zones and to make sure they each have safes and disabled goons. Failure to keep a couple of defended zones near the end WILL RESULT IN TOTAL TEAM LOSS.

Instead of focusing on just one crane operator, I think that stompers should focus on left / right side of the CFO where the goonies come out and focus on defending both crane operators.

I've found that defending both crane operators allows for the occasional stomper to float over and help out the other side without leaving any particular crane operator completely defenseless.

Also, I've found that if the stompers swarm and disable the goonies as soon as they come out of the CFO, the whole fight goes much easier and quicker with less damage being done.

My last few CFO fights employed this strategy and it worked extremely well and the CFO was dispatched quickly with minimal damage, lots of treasures still sitting around, and very few red goonies roaming around.

[WizardHawk]

Originally Posted by Peach Cat

Instead of focusing on just one crane operator, I think that stompers should focus on left / right side of the CFO where the goonies come out and focus on defending both crane operators.

I've found that defending both crane operators allows for the occasional stomper to float over and help out the other side without leaving any particular crane operator completely defenseless.

Also, I've found that if the stompers swarm and disable the goonies as soon as they come out of the CFO, the whole fight goes much easier and quicker with less damage being done.

My last few CFO fights employed this strategy and it worked extremely well and the CFO was dispatched quickly with minimal damage, lots of treasures still sitting around, and very few red goonies roaming around.

This has been refered to as the hemispherical defense where two toons cover the entire half of the battle area of one of his doors. In application there is very little difference between the zone and the one you suggest. Read rule #1 of the stompers in the zone:

Rule #1: YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEFENSE OF THE CRANE IN YOUR ZONE. This does not mean you cannot go to other zones to help out, it means you need to always keep an eye on your home zone and be ready to move to defend it.

This states you can, and SHOULD move out of your zone but always keep an eye out on what your home crane zone may have coming. In the proper working of the zone, both toons on the same side of the door should work as a team and often do cover goons in each others zone. The purpose of still calling this zone theory is to make sure that someone is responsible for each crane to help make sure that no one is left without coverage. This does not mean that if any goon gets through you have failed and it does not mean you shouldn't help other zones, just keep an eye on your crane. You can see where the difference between what you suggest and what we do is minimal.

Most of the time you can expect the stompers in the zone defense to be group jumping on the goons at the door. Ever since Disney made it so that you are immune to lights once hit by one, there is little danger in creating such clusters. Again, the only difference is that you should still keep an eye for goons that wind up being thrown behind your crane, and goons that may be wondering from the other side of your zone. Its just another way to make sure that nothing gets through without someone being responsible for taking it out.

[Lady Freckles]

Regarding stomping goonies - high on my list of TT fun lately!

If we go in with 8 to the battle, I find my stomping spot and try to stomp them as soon as I can. At the start, when less goons are coming out, and more slowly, I tend to scan left and right to check for 'tossed' goons. When they land at the side they can get to a crane operator quickly. After dealing with one of the strays I try to go back to my area, but keep an eye out for areas that look troublesome, and keep scanning for strays.

On Test sometimes, we would have success with the goons when two of us were on either side of the door and we would stomp and switch - basically, when you get to the other side, turn around and stay there. This, of course, works best in the early stages.

If we are in with less than 8, I try to keep an eye on both sides - often one side will have more goons coming out than the other. This is when you may need to do more moving around. (Has anyone noticed any reason why more come from one side - maybe more hits on that side? Just wondering...)

When things start to get really fast at the end, I often find myself aiming for any moving goon. Trouble is, I sometimes end up hitting the CFO, which I know makes him sit down, but it 'stuns' the stomper, so be careful if your laff is low, as the goon lights can get you as you 'come to'. Also, that fast pace chasing down the goons sometimes makes me dizzy - I have to stop for a second and refocus.

I do think that sometimes the lag makes it hard to hit the goons - somedays it seems as if you never miss, and other days, even the smallest yellow hat eludes you.

Mostly, I try to have fun with it - those final battle moments are the best, waiting for that one hit to finish him off. And if I end up sad in the playground, it's just Jellies to restock, grab some laff and try again....

[Deputy Monty]

Originally Posted by WizardHawk

Rule #4: IN THE END GAME, ABANDON ANY ZONE THAT IS TOO INFESTED WITH GOONS. Both the crane operator, and the stomper should bail. You can either reinforce other zones, or slowly clean up that zone. What is most important is to have at least TWO well defended zones and to make sure they each have safes and disabled goons. Failure to keep a couple of defended zones near the end WILL RESULT IN TOTAL TEAM LOSS.

This is so important. I've been in a couple of battles where at the end, the goonies were all on one side...one side was totally swarmed and the other side could hardly find a goonie to throw. I continued to try to protect my crane operators but it was nearly impossible and my health got dangerously low. As you stated, we only need two well defended zones...knowing when to leave an area and what to do next is important.

[WizardHawk]

These 'rules' are designed to help newer cfo'ers to know what is most important to victory while they are learning the skills needed to win. That one rule (#4) was very important to us in the early development of test. At that time, EVERY run ended in failure until we worked out what each team member really needed to do.

That rule is hard to lay out in detail since the end game is not exactly the same every run. Some have major swarms and others are quite spread out. The point is that it is better to abandon a zone or two then to take a bunch of damage trying to work it back to a usable state. Since it only takes one or two zones to win it is most important to work as a team long enough to get that last hit in and to be smart enough to know where that last stand should take place.

Several times in the last week we have won with only one crane at the end and here is how we do it. It does help if there are at least 3 or 4 toons left so that there are other targets for the CFO.

First, pick a zone with a few safes in it. You can take a few rounds to move them into formations you like and toon up before you make that last attack.

Second, the stompers can make this MUCH, MUCH easier if you attempt to stomp just one goon in line between the crane and the cfo.

Third, after stomping that goon its time for your end crane operator to take the crane. Have one or more run into his treads to attempt to give the crane time to toss the safe to remove the helmet. Since they already have a disabled goon lined up it doesn't take long to get that last hit in and in fact they even have enough time to step back from a gear attack if needed.

As DM said in the complete guide to the cfo thread (cog HQ forum), it is also quite important at this time to not stand near the crane. Doing so doubles the chances that the crane operator will take a gear attack. Stand off toward the door to try and have the CFO target you.

[LucyLu]

Question: I tried CFO for the first time this AM with a pick up group in Looneyville... I offered to stomp, and I did pretty well. Suddenly all the cranes were abandoned, so I gave one a try... OMG! It is so confusing. Mata Hairy may have explained it in the room there, but it might help to have it spelled out here.

I think it was "ctrl" to activate magnet, and arrow keys to move magnet, and let go of "ctrl" to throw, but I could be wrong... and what do you do about all that swinging? I never connected once, and no one was defending me well, so I kept getting knocked off. I went sad first, looking for toon ups.

In other words: I tanked.

KBB offered me some advice about the crane, in game, but it is much easier to digest advice here in the forum. Any takers? Or should I say, "givers"?