What phrases should and shouldn't we use?

[cputnal]

Hi everyone -

Not being one to avoid controversy (ahem..), I've been thinking for the last day or so about the various speedchat phrases at our disposal, both the standard ones, and the ones available in special circumstances (say, in the CEO).

Phrases that deal with the action the person has taken seem to me to be quite different than those that attack the person doing the action. In my discussions with my kids, I frequently remind them that being critical of someone's actions is different than being critical of them - that what someone is doing might be bad (at that time), but that you can't categorically say that the person is bad.

We have a number of phrases that can be percieved situationally as an attack one the person's character, ie:

"You Stink"
"Are you new here?"
"Please go away"

However, I would argue that we have other phrases that quite clearly address a behavior that just occured, and, depending on the situation, are useful and often appropriate:

"Please save the snacks for the sadder toons."
"Stop that!"
"That wasn't nice"

In these phrases, the reference isn't to who a person is, it is to what they are doing. Now this may seem like a very fine distinction. However, it is a quite important one, I believe. If someone repeatedly uses a lvl one gag on lvl 12 cogs, saying "Stop that!" "You should use a different gag" seems quite appropriate to me. Saying "Are you new here?" on the other hand, doesn't impel them to a different behavior, it only is critical of the person behind the toon.

In a recent post, the OP explained the actions of a kid who was, well, perhaps over indulging on the snack table in the CEO. I wasn't there, so I can't judge the degree of indulgence. Apparently, this toon was then hit with many "You Stink" "Please go away" phrases. I would argue that those were uncalled for, as they attack the person.

However, I would equally argue that saying someone who had said "Stop that" or "That wasn't nice" would be saying valid things, in an attempt to change the behavior of the person.

We can't be all cotton candy and sweetness, nor should we be all vinegar and salt. Is the differentiation I've discussed valid and useful in how we attempt to guide our fellow toons?

I know that there are those who will want us to always simply try to lead by example, rather than through discourse/SpeedChat, and while I agree that setting a good example is certainly an excellent way to guide behavior, in addition to leading, sometimes you need to push from behind as well, through the words we have at our disposal to use.

Just a few thoughts for your comment and conversation.....

Craig

[Captain Pickles Weaselchomp]

I myself HAVE used "Stop That" in the CEO once or twice, if toons are at 100 laff and I am down at 20. However, I don't think it's ALWAYS appropriate to use these phrases. However, I think there are a few loopholes in the CCG rules-such as saying stop that when someone steals the snacks in the CEO when you need them much better than they do.

~cpwc

[Queen Violet Hulawig]

I have used "Stop that" and "That wasn't nice" a few times in the VP. I don't use them for every little mistake, but for when someone is obviously griefing. I might say something like "That wasn't nice" then "Let's work together!". If they continue to grief I'll throw out the "Stop that". I always say "Let's work together!" and "Thanks" afterwards so it sounds more like a request then an insult.

I did use "Please save the snacks for the sadder toons" once when there was a toon in the corner golfing and grabbing the snacks as soon as the conveyor filled up. This other toon ended up going sad because every time she tried to get to the snacks, the other toon would beat her (and he wasn't even down in laff). I meant it as a request, and lost no sleep over it when he continued to hog the snacks. That's the way the cookie crumbles!

[sem52]

If I've jumped off a table and I'm down 15 or more laff and there are snacks getting ready to fall, I will run over and grab a couple. I never grab them all unless I am low. That way if it does start getting nasty I can concentrate on the job at hand. This also allows me to let the other toons get snacks later when everyone is looking for them.

[fermat]

I completely agree with your distinction! You pinpointed the exact three phrases that we told our daughter to never use.

I do sometimes use "Are you new here?" while waiting for a cfo or cj run, if I find a short change 1 or bottom feeder 1, but I usually follow it up with "Good luck!" or "Have fun!" or "Let's work together." But it definitely can be misused in other situations.

[little bubbles]

Craig: "We can't be all cotton candy and sweetness, nor should we be all vinegar and salt. Is the differentiation I've discussed valid and useful in how we attempt to guide our fellow toons?

I know that there are those who will want us to always simply try to lead by example, rather than through discourse/SpeedChat, and while I agree that setting a good example is certainly an excellent way to guide behavior, in addition to leading, sometimes you need to push from behind as well, through the words we have at our disposal to use."
************************************************** ************************************************** Well put Craig! I agree with you whole heartedly. We as adults can tell in a second if the person on the other side is a child or an adult. (and come on admit it those working gags or using a doodle are children). We are here in THEIR world.....Guide them we must...coddle them never. Leading by example is our duty and when they fail to comply we must use appropiate speedchat phrases. If that fails thank god they aren't your children and move on!!

[Tromos]

You're such a dad, Craig

Of course, so am I

I do like your reasoning. As Melinda pointed out, though, "Are you new here?" was probably meant to be a helpful phrase, not a derogatory one. It's placement in "Friendly" instead of "Stink" would seem to imply that. Personally, I think "Are you new here?" toward a CC1 or SC1 or the like should be followed by "Would you like some help?" As a recent newbie to both the VP and CFO runs, I was scrambling for any help (and understanding of mistakes) I could find.

Yay for TTC dads!

[cputnal]

I completely agree that "Are you new here?" in the context of waiting outside a HQ, and then telling them "good luck" or "would you like some help" etc. is totally appropriate. I've used it that way.

Used in fighting cogs, it is derogatory to the person, and I would never use it then.

(and, Thanks! I'm very much a proud Dad!)

Craig

[chocoholic1415]

Originally Posted by cputnal

In my discussions with my kids, I frequently remind them that being critical of someone's actions is different than being critical of them - that what someone is doing might be bad (at that time), but that you can't categorically say that the person is bad.

Are you my mother or did you just go to the same school???

Well put Craig. Another thing to remember is that unless the phrase was whispered, you shouldn't assume that any percieved stinky comment is directed at you. Until I started coming to the forums and reading other peoples views, I used to stink the cogs all the time. Everytime the cogs attacked us I would stink them, it was never directed at the toon in my company even when they were using bike horns.

[minipups2]

I also have used "Are you new here?" immediately followed by "Yes" to indicate that *I* am the new one, and I have no idea what I'm doing, LOL. When I have done it that way the toons I have been talking with have understood that I am trying to tell them that *I* am the clueless one...

I also used to stink the cogs before I started reading the forums. I never directed it at any toons, just the cogs, and it appeared that the toons I played with understood what I was doing then as well.

The only time I used the stinky phrases on a toon seriously was when I was griefed in the factory one time-- I had 2 toons that ran ahead of my friend and me and finished off the foreman without us. I told them "That wasn't nice," but even then I couldn't stink them, LOL!