Presentation/Level 7 lure

[Turnip]

It would seem I caused some confusion tonight in the recent vp - by encouraging toons to go left after I used presentation. Can someone please explain this strategy as I am tired and off to find my bed....

You guys rock, by the way - you can always tell when a random is present on a run - CCG members are always so polite and friendly. What a group!

Night all....

Don Key.

[Princess Penny Bumberpoof]

I know I saw a very fine and well written post on this very subject somewhere in one of the strategy or "How to Fight With an Uber" threads a while (6 months or so) ago. It explained the strategy very clearly (heck, even I understood it). I will not be anywhere near as eloquent but will do my best to explain it for the uninitiated.

On simple terms, once a presentation has been played it can be assumed that the affected cogs will remain lured for up to 15 rounds. I have never tested this number but have never had to face cogs waking up from a presentation either so it looks to be a fairly reliable number. Soooooooo, if the presentation lured cogs are effectively of no concern for such a long period of time, the strategy changes. After all, why would you want to wake a sleeping cog that poses no risk to anyone?

The only cog that will be a threat at this point is whatever new cog appears. And it will ALWAYS fill the furthest left position in the line. Hence the change to lure left, kill left. Even if the lure misses, there are several other toons available (hopefully) to take him out with their gags. So you will continue this pattern of LLKL until no more new cogs appear. Then you can pick off the original, presentation lured cogs at your leisure.

This strategy is most often employed when playing with ubers and other low-laff toons. It provides a safer environment for those toons that do not have much room for error. Once the presentation has hit, they should never have to face more than one angry cog at a time. Even if for some reason the team fails to eliminate the new cog, it will be the only cog retaliating against the team of toons.

I was on your side for this battle Don Key and I commend you for A) offering your presentation in the first place; B) trying to communicate harder than anyone I have ever seen what the new strategy should be; and C) for refraining from expressing what must have been considerable frustration on your side of the keyboard when that advice was met with shrugs and "Huh"s. Especially since it was for the benefit of the toons that did not understand the change in strategy that the presentation was played in the first place.

I did not get the impression that they were trying to nullify the presentation on purpose but think that they genuinely did not understand. I remember the first time (okay, several times) that I played with someone who used one and I had no clue as to why everyone wanted to go left. It was only after I had offed a few ubers that I went in search of threads such as this one to hopefully enlighten me. And it worked. I am now rather fond of using my presentations and understand all too well how it feels to try to change the pattern of play only to have it be nullified by players who don't understand. Hopefully they will see this or similar threads and will understand what you were trying to do.

On another note, sorry if I confused you on the CFO porch after this fight. I started repeating all of your speedchat suggestions back to you followed by the confused gesture and you honestly must have thought I was nuts! I was just trying to empathize with you over what had just happened and let you know I shared your frustration. I think you finally caught on to what I was trying to do.

Princess Penny Bumberpoof

[Loopy_Rainbow]

Can I add something here? Well, I will anyway. lol

I got completely confused in an uber run b/c presentation was thrown, and then the toons all went for one cog to the right of the left-most cog. I couldn't figure out why, but I knew they were smarter than me, so I just followed their lead. lol!

Then I was in the VP and a light bulb went on when I had the same situation. You use presentation, and take out one of the opening cogs. Two more cogs come out. You are all going for one cog. So, when a new cog comes out, the cog who is next him on his right will come out of lure at some point if not taken out. So, we were basically llkr, but with the two left most cogs in play. I hope I made sense as my coffee wore off hours ago.

Megan
______________________________________
Loopy Rainbow Blubbersnooker
Goliath
Hedwig

[Princess Penny Bumberpoof]

Originally Posted by Loopy_Rainbow

Can I add something here? Well, I will anyway. lol

I got completely confused in an uber run b/c presentation was thrown, and then the toons all went for one cog to the right of the left-most cog. I couldn't figure out why, but I knew they were smarter than me, so I just followed their lead. lol!

Then I was in the VP and a light bulb went on when I had the same situation. You use presentation, and take out one of the opening cogs. Two more cogs come out. You are all going for one cog. So, when a new cog comes out, the cog who is next him on his right will come out of lure at some point if not taken out. So, we were basically llkr, but with the two left most cogs in play. I hope I made sense as my coffee wore off hours ago.

Megan
______________________________________
Loopy Rainbow Blubbersnooker
Goliath
Hedwig

Yeah, I follow you. I have even made what I now consider to be a mistake and thrown my presentation on the initial 3 cogs in the skele round. Problem with that is that you have to take one of those first 3 out in order to get any more to come out of the door. So you are then faced with 2 fresh cogs that need to be lured/eliminated. And the goggles just do not work like the presentation. So from that point on you do have to keep track of 2 cogs instead of just one.

Ideally presentation will not be used until there is a full set of four cogs in front of you. It works best if all three of the initial cogs you face are eliminated at one time (sound and piano work well) and then you can use the presentation on the four new ones that come out. Then you eliminate one and only one cog so you only have one fresh one coming out at a time. Then the LLKL strategy is effective and should be followed. The other option is to use a "cogs miss" SOS on the initial three cogs and only take out one or two so you can get the full four in front of you prior to using the presentation. But that leaves a lot to chance if you are unable to communicate what SOS you are playing. And if it misses there are likely to be some green ubers looking for change in the pg. That is another reason I like to throw out a "toons hit" SOS whenever someone on my team plays a presentation. I would prefer to take the initial three out at once whenever possible though.

The use of the presentation is probably the most misunderstood gag in the entire game. Other level seven gags are wonderful and overtly powerful but there is a subtle and nuanced beauty to proper use of the presentation that, when done right and understood by the rest of the team, is even more powerful than a wedding cake or Toontanic. It can be a toons best friend when played at the right time and it is utilized "correctly". Glad to muddy the waters with my opinion. This is clear as mud now right?

Princess Penny Bumberpoof

[cputnal]

If you are planning on using Presentation a lot, I would suggest you hunt for and get "You take left" - it does help to communicate your intentions.....

Criag

[Princess Penny Bumberpoof]

Originally Posted by cputnal

If you are planning on using Presentation a lot, I would suggest you hunt for and get "You take left" - it does help to communicate your intentions.....

Criag

Haven't been able to find it in any of my cattlelogs yet. Anybody out there so kind as to offer it up?

PPB

[mildew102]

Originally Posted by Loopy_Rainbow

Can I add something here? Well, I will anyway. lol

I got completely confused in an uber run b/c presentation was thrown, and then the toons all went for one cog to the right of the left-most cog. I couldn't figure out why, but I knew they were smarter than me, so I just followed their lead. lol!

I was also one of those confused toons. I have the presentation, but still didn't understand until I was in a CCG run with an uber on our side. One toon kept giving me "suggestions" and I just didn't get it. I resorted to picking gags last because I didn't know why I was being scolded. By the end of the round, I saw the light!

[Jefe]

The times that make most sense to use presentation in the skele round are:
A) When you are faced with 4 cogs right off the bat. Everyone else should then take out the 12 (or at least agree on one cog )
B) When the initial lure has missed and you now have 4 cogs in front of you, unlured. It may be wise to add a Toons Hit card here, as if goggles missed the first time, there's a chance the presentation will miss also.

I will gladly use my presentation in either case w/ my two toons that have lure. Sometimes its used properly, sometimes its wasted. It doesn't bother me, I just go pick a new one.

Its hard enough to convince other toons of the presentation strategy when its used on 4 unlured cogs. You'd have to have some very good players to use it properly otherwise.

A note: Presentation WILL run out if there are no toons taking out cogs on the other side, as you will be faced with twice as many cogs.

Another note: I see presentation used many times when someone is about to play another lvl 7 gag. This seems like a total waste to me.

[Loopy Fancy Pinkerpounce]

Originally Posted by DonKeyandcrew

It would seem I caused some confusion tonight in the recent vp - by encouraging toons to go left after I used presentation.
Don Key.

Originally Posted by Loopy_Rainbow

I got completely confused in an uber run b/c presentation was thrown, and then the toons all went for one cog to the right of the left-most cog.

Originally Posted by Princess Penny Bumberpoof

The use of the presentation is probably the most misunderstood gag in the entire game.
Princess Penny Bumberpoof

Originally Posted by mildew102

I was also one of those confused toons.

Originally Posted by cputnal

If you are planning on using Presentation a lot, I would suggest you hunt for and get "You take left" - it does help to communicate your intentions.....
Criag

Originally Posted by Jefe

Its hard enough to convince other toons of the presentation strategy when its used on 4 unlured cogs. You'd have to have some very good players to use it properly otherwise.

I think I quoted a bit from every poster in the thread. If you choose to use this gag, please know that it may cause confusion, especially in a group that LLKR's.

lfpp

[Turnip]

Thanks for the really neat explanations. Don Key has both 'You take left' and 'You take right' - though sometimes even 'You take left' confuses toons.

Princess Penny Bumberpoof - I love your name, by the way, yes, you did confuse me at cfo after. lol But no worries, you are cute!

Have a great day, all.

Don Key.

[Flippers]

Me make simple answer:

Presentations last 15 rounds. With a small toon in the lineup we may hold the cogs and just hit the new one. Then just pick off the remaining 3 when no more come out. Can rarely go wrong (with lvl 25+ toons, can NEVER go wrong).*

The level 12 skel is always second from right from the first set out. Ubers tend to hit the biggest cog first to minimize attack damage.


*Note: in a mixed run if the smaller toon insists on working right or sound on the next turn, follow them. They probably dont want special treatment.