Advanced Pie Fight Strategy

[Murky]

Basic VP Strategies for Close Stunning and Gear Dodging for Intermediate and Advanced Players

I've asked for tips for dodging gears, and where to stand and how to move to pie up close. I wanted to give you all a place to collect your tips, suggestions, and ideas.

[Miss Clover Doggendoodle]

Here is a chart of the standard placements especially focusing on close stunning. I realize there are more strategies than just this, but I did try to include more than just mine. Dodge routes can be translated as the direction in which a toon in that position aims. That way minimum time-consuming adjustments can be made.



The rest of these images and charts are mainly how to dodge the gears.

This is an APROXIMATION (Note: aproximation) of the VP's range:







Does anyone remember exactly how many gears come out of the door? I believe I remember there is an odd number of them. Long range stunners remember that one will fly straight down the middle, so try to be off center slightly. It has worked for me.



Correction: The following chart says you don't have to move as much if you are way out in the red area. This is false, but the rest of it is true.

[Doctor Mac]

I have a pie solo video somewhere, but I'll try to explain in my best.

Okay, first off. When you're up front in close stunning it's easiest for me to stun from the left side of the vp but for others it's easier from the right. Just try one and figure out which one you do better. You'll also want to stand back a little out of gears' way when he opens his pie door, and then move in for the stun after its clear of gears on your side. Aim very low with almost no blue showing to make it in. As soon as you throw it in, jump back really quickly in case he jerks forward during the process of being stunned. on the first ramp it's impossible to stun from up close in front. On the second ramp, it's possible but it is very hard to do. I can't hit from the second ramp but I know a few very skilled players who can. So most of the time just hit when he's on a flat surface. When he does the gear shower thing you can either run to the the side of the vp (easiest). Or, a little harder; you can run up right by his pie door until hes done. That's all I can think of now.

The site I had all my solo videos on is no longer working i guess. Could someone please give me a link to a free approved video hosting site? A lot of them have poor servers and take a while to load. I'm trying to find a good one. I typed in "Approved hosting sites" into the TTC search engine, but it didn't really bring up anything useful. Sorry for double post but I want to bump this up so more people can see it and post.

[Dawggie]

At this point, I think most all of us know that the key to getting a good shot in the hole is the releasing of the pie when the blue bar is closest to the left side. This is best attained by holding the insert key (or mouse button) down and releasing when the blue bar is furthest to the left.

Stun Position:
Let's discuss stun positioning for a lil bit. The most important part of stunning is positioning, followed closely by the paragragh above. The optimum position is to have your toon at a 45 degree angle from the inner left tread. Your toon's right shoulder should be in line with the VP's inner left tread. If you draw an imaginary 45 degree line from the inner left tread (or the doors left edge), you will have the optimal line that your toon should be using to advance forward and always be in stun position. What I recommend is that you use that imaginary line to walk up to the vp as close as you can then take 2 steps back. THIS is the BEST stun position you can possibly be in. You might ask why. So, to answer that question, I'll simply say that it is because it allows you the flexibility to move forward/backwards (to avoid overhead gears) AND if your toon is at this angle you should never get geared from gears out the door or get hit by the door itself.

To avoid the overhead gear hits:

The best way to avoid this attack from the VP is to use the bait and run technique. The only time the VP throws gears directly at you is when he first stares at you. Once you detect him staring at you, you simply take a big step forward and the gears will fly right over your toon's head. If you are too close to move foward a step, then once you see him staring, hit your back arrow key and jump and the gears will hit the ground.


To avoid gear showers:

The VP frequently uses this attack and it affects a wide area. I find the best way to avoid taking damage from the VP for this attack is to first observe and figure out the effected area. Then, simply avoid that area by backing away so you're out of range OR if you're in stun position, simply take a step forward toward the treads. Be careful not to run into the VP or you'll take damage as well. There is usually a safe zone of about 1 step near the front of the treads where the showers will miss you. You might see where some toons run toward the door to avoid the hit and that works fine, but is not recommended because if the door opens, it will hit you and ding you for a few points. This is why stun position is important. If you are 2 steps away at that 45 degree angle position, you have the freedom to run forward to avoid damage and still be in position to unleash a pie at the door in case it opens, all the while not having to worry about being hit by the door when it opens. This attack only affects toons at the front of the VP and not the back.

One other thing that is worth noting about the front stunning the VP. When you are successful at stunning up close from the front, you will find that the VP has a tendancy to roll forward a hair when he is stunned. If you are too close, this can cause a stun jump from the VP which might possible affect the entire group for a -10. Is there any way to prevent this? The answer is Yes, but its not easy. This can be avoided by hitting the CTRL key to jump immediately after a front stun followed by the back arrow. A back-Jump will move your toon out of the way enuf to prevent the stun roll effect. This is a very advanced technique and requires tons of practice.

[Dream Dancer]

Double posting to bump this thread probably won't be nescessary for a while if lots of people contribute. As per Murky's request, my tips are being moved here from the other thread!

A few tips for those who want them. (If you don't want tips, go away! lol just kidding)

First and foremost, when the VP jumps (you'll hear a kind of *whoosh* sound), make sure you jump before he lands! You lose ten laff every time you're on the ground when he lands, and that isn't good.

Second, EVERY time the VP recovers from being dizzy, he will throw a spray of gears out toward his front. Whenever he starts to get up, get to his side or get really close to avoid the -3 laff hit.

Sometimes, the VP may get down really low, like when he's dizzy, but nobody's hit him. When he does this, back off quick! He'll swat you for -5 laff if you're too close.

When you're practicing throwing those pies, there really isn't any need to wait for his door to open before you try a throw. The more practice you get doing it just right, the better! If you hit the little rectangle on his door, chances are pretty good you would've stunned him had his door been open.

If you drop below eleven laff at ANY time, it's probably a VERY good idea to go visit the healer. At that point, it is possible for the VP to kill you in a single hit if you mess up. It's a good idea not to even let it get that far though. Go visit your healer as soon as you start getting low! I normally consider about half your laff left as being a little low.

I liked this idea, if you need a toonup during the pie round, go stand on the higher ramp and jump! That'll make it so the team healers know who needs help and who's still fine with their laff. It also gets you out of the fray where you won't need to move around so much.

A suggestion for how we gather to start, I think it'd be a good idea to set a point for each team to meet (like the CFO run you did). Then everyone will know exactly where to go when they arrive.

Another idea I had is this: Have a teacher stick to each side, preferably one who's really good there. Then, if that teacher gets hurt and needs a Toonup, the remaining one can fill in for a while. When you're the one not sticking to a side, move back and forth and help each side out a little. A little extra help can go a long way.

Oh, one final tip for the teachers. Chances are you'll run into a situation like this. You're just fine (maybe only missing a few laff) but one of your students is hurt. Don't feel like you HAVE to let the healer do ALL the healing work. A few well placed pies from the teachers once in a while can keep your students happy for quite a while. When someone gets really hurt, or if two need help, send one to the healer to get some more laff. And if your students start to get really low, make sure to remind them to visit the healer. Some people can get a little over excited. Be aware of what your students are doing! Correct them if they're doing something wrong, and help keep them in good shape.

I'll add some more later if I think of them! I'm sure Murky Paddlefink has some good tips too when she posts them. Keep checking back here for more! You never know when something might jump out and make you go, "ooohhhh, now why don't I do that???" Even VP pie experts like me can find a few new tricks here.

[KittyPapa]

1 stand by VP
2 throw pie
3 cross fingers
4 place Crab E. Dawg between you and the VP
5 duck and run


This a great thread, i especially like the pictures showing where to stand.
Hopefully it will help some of the newer toons learning to pie.

[PRW]

Miss Clover and Dawggie's info is VERY well put... (Awesome visuals Miss Clover). I would like to add one thing to one part of Dawggie's post:

The only time the VP will move forward a little when he is stunned, is when he has jumped since the last time he was stunned.

For example, the VP is stunned and driven back, the stun ends, doors open and he is stunned again.... the VP will NOT move forward.

However, if he is stunned and driven back, the stun ends, he jumps and is rolling forward slowly, the doors open and he is stunned again.... the VP WILL move forward a little.

This is something to keep in mind as you practice close stunning from the front and also if you move up right next to the vp to avoid the spray. If someone stuns him and he moves forward and hits you, that can end the stun.

Originally Posted by Dawggie

One other thing that is worth noting about the front stunning the VP. When you are successful at stunning up close from the front, you will find that the VP has a tendancy to roll forward a hair when he is stunned. If you are too close, this can cause a stun jump from the VP which might possible affect the entire group for a -10. Is there any way to prevent this? The answer is Yes, but its not easy. This can be avoided by hitting the CTRL key to jump immediately after a front stun followed by the back arrow. A back-Jump will move your toon out of the way enuf to prevent the stun roll effect. This is a very advanced technique and requires tons of practice.

[Murky]

Here's a few screen shots from CCG runs that might be helpful

Stand where there's room to move forward to avoid gears, yet out of range of the gear fan hit range, like HawgWild is demonstrating below. Note that he's not real close, so he has lots of room for moving to avoid gear damage. His right foot is in line with the left edge of the tread. I think that's a good imaginary line to help get into the right position.




The 45 degree angle that I like looks like Irky in the pix below. There's room to step forward if he looks at me, and I can throw a pie inside the door at this angle.





He looked right at me, I should have stepped two steps closer to him so those gears would have gone over my head! (Too busy fussing with screen shots and the laff of other toons, lol)

[cputnal]

And here I thought that I was overly analytical!!!

Wow, this would have saved me lots and lots of trouble early on - great stuff!

Craig

[Little Fancy Pedalwhip]

Wow, very nice thread! I love all the pics and diagrams.

Here is my stunning strategy:

I stand behind the VP with my chest centered on the outside edge of his left tread.

I step back so I am about as far out from him as his tread is wide.


His Left Tread:

||_____||
||
||
||
/\
My Chest Here


Then, I turn to a 45 degree angle facing the door and begin throwing pies.
When I throw pies, I let the meter go all the way up and come back down so it shows almost gone and the pie throws very low.

I continue throwing pies the entire time, even when his door is closed. That way, if I am off a bit I can adjust so I am hitting his door.

If he turns to look at me, I take two steps forward (still at the 45 degree angle to his tread). When beginning in the far left position, it allows you to step forward and if he should open the door right then, you can still lob a pie in without getting hit.

[Sir Fumblesmirk]

Doctor Mac; Great video, I get it now...woohoo!!!

Clover; great visual aids.

Murky; love ya for all the work you are doing here.

Dawwgie: I think this is too risky for you! No j/k, you are awesome!!

KP: ROFL!!!

The rest of you, Rock on Baby!


Thanks to all who have contributed here, you are all wonderful.

[Beaniemooch]

I love the video, it makes so much sense now. Now for the practice portion of the training.....

Little Dizzy Beaniemooch

[Dream Dancer]

Another idea came to me while I was watching Doctor Mac's movie. We probably won't be practicing it, but when the VP is stunned and you're working from the front, you can back up and keep throwing pies right at the VP for a little while. That also gets you a little ways away so you have more room to run from the gear shower when he recovers. Right after Mac stuns the VP is a great example of what I mean. Hitting him is the opposite of hitting the door now though, you have to aim high instead of low unless you're on the ramp.

You've probably already noticed, but watching the VP can give you a good idea of what he's about to do. Different actions mean he's about to do different things. If the VP. . .

Sits there doing nothing, just breathing and kind of swinging around: He's thinking about (randomly choosing) what to do next. This is the VP's "safe" phase. He's perfectly harmless while he's doing this (unless his door opens to throw gears or you bump into him). Watch out though, it likely won't last long.

Sits real low on his base with stars above his head and birdsong playing: He's dizzy (stunned)! This is another safe phase, even safer than the first one, since he won't open his door! During our practice run, we won't do anything, just let him sit and recover while we continue to throw pies at his door, but in a normal run this is that time we all know and love. Time to throw a pie in his face!

Turns and stares straight at you: He's about to throw a line of gears! Take a few steps forward or jump back to avoid the -3 hit.

Gets down really low (you won't see the bars between his base and gear seat): He's getting ready to swat at you! This normally happens if you're too close and run into him. Back up, if possible, to avoid the -5.

You really don't get much warning, but. . .
Jumps in the air: What goes up, must come down! And believe me, that big metal base of his comes down HARD. Make sure you jump AFTER he jumps, but BEFORE he hits the ground to keep away from a dangerous -10.

Opens a door (on either side): You've probably noticed that this means two things. 1: He's vulnerable! Throw a pie in! and 2: A line of gears will be shot out. It's not very dangerous (only a -3) but it means you won't get a chance to get a pie in before he closes up again. They shoot out fairly randomly from what I've seen, but, luckily, there's a safe spot right next to his treads! That's why you want to be close to his treads, he can't hit you with those gears there.

||. . . .||
||……..||
*^^^*
^^^^^
^^^^^^^

|| mark treads
* mark where you should stand
^ mark areas gears might go
. mark the door

While you're over getting healed, take a minute and look at the VP. Watch what he does before each attack, so you can get a good idea of what he's about to do next. We Toons have an advantage against the VP: All of his attacks are predictable, ours aren't. Keep a close eye on him and you'll always know what he's about to do next.

One more thing, good job, Mac! I'm sure that movie will help a lot. All these pictures, diagrams and explanations are nice, but nothing beats actually watching someone do it! (Except maybe doing it yourself)

[Brrlgrrl]

Nice movie Doctor Mac, I love the addition of you giving fishing advice while soloing!

[wally chops pickle head]

This is awesome.
What i do is wait for the VP to start going down the first ramp, step right and you should fall off the ramp................stay there and hide for 10 mins and come back up when you hear the VP fall off the edge. Then enjoy the dance with the rest of the toons while repeatedly saying "Good teamwork" "you are awesome"

Just kidding.

There is some awesome advice here and i would like to say a big thanks to Murky for making this thread.