Are we a bit harsh at the DA's office?

[Zaphod]

Today, Dudley Doggenton and a 108 laff cat with unmaxed (not really even close) sound, a 107 soundless duck with 3 unmaxed tracks, and a 61 laff dog with some of the worst gags I have ever seen on a 61 laffer completed a "D" office with no casualties.

The funny thing is it really wasn't all that tough. Now to be fair, the soundless duck was the great Luke Warmwater, whose skills are unquestionable, but still.

Maybe its time to rethink the way we try to shuffle the little toons out of the DA elevators. True, they don't need the jn's. True, it's pretty risky for them. Risky yes, impossible, no. 3 toons with decent gags can finish it off anyway.

We were done in a reasonable amount of time, maybe even faster than if we had ditched the little guy when you include shuffle time. The lack of aggrevation more than made up for the small amount of extra thinking it took to make sure everyone danced.

[LadyDaffodilGiggleMonkey]

I would agree, that shuffle is killer. I have even watched my husband's toon with fully maxed gags and very respectable laff 116 be shuffled off the DA elevator by a well known CCG member. No explanation of Sorry I'm helping a friend was offered to him... just shuffle shuffle shuffle shuffle. He gave up, figured they didn't want his skills, well someone else would. He ended up soloing buildings.

Anyway good point the gag experience is worth it for the lower laff.

[Squiddy22]

Originally Posted by Zaphod

Today, Dudley Doggenton and a 108 laff cat with unmaxed (not really even close) sound, a 107 soundless duck with 3 unmaxed tracks, and a 61 laff dog with some of the worst gags I have ever seen on a 61 laffer completed a "D" office with no casualties.

The funny thing is it really wasn't all that tough. Now to be fair, the soundless duck was the great Luke Warmwater, whose skills are unquestionable, but still.

Maybe its time to rethink the way we try to shuffle the little toons out of the DA elevators. True, they don't need the jn's. True, it's pretty risky for them. Risky yes, impossible, no. 3 toons with decent gags can finish it off anyway.

We were done in a reasonable amount of time, maybe even faster than if we had ditched the little guy when you include shuffle time. The lack of aggrevation more than made up for the small amount of extra thinking it took to make sure everyone danced.

It's never impossible because you've got your SOS Toons, and TOWs, but still, impossible or not, high laff toons don't want to have to risk wasting time with a low laffer. It really depends on the person playing the toon. Some low laffers know how to DA, some don't. Some people like you, think it's not hard to do a DA with a low laffer, others disagree.

Am I making sense?

[LVTP]

Last random I went on - we ended up with LVTP, a lureless bunny (all other gags maxxed) and a 107 toon with only throw maxed, ele, cloud and rest lvl 4 gags. There was a 120+ toon who ran back to the playground at the very start. I asked which way and left it up to the other two toons. We went ahead and I don't remember any problems at all. True, we may have been lucky with the restock barrels, but it seems like it was fairly easy. I can't stand the shuffle. It often takes more time to get into the DA than to win against the CJ.

[cputnal]

My two cents.

While I would like to be charitable and agree that we should all be willing to go with a 61 into a DA D, I have seen, on more than one occasion, that 61 laffs eliminated from my toon with two great -21 hits and two nice -13 trips after a missed lure or sound Ignoring the fact that maybe you took a light hit or two before that.

Having completed a D the other day where we had lure miss 4 times and sound miss 4 times (but boy did I get a LOT of tu credit)- twice on the same set of cogs no less, the 61 would not have survived that run.

The only thing I would say is that if someone wants to have that thrill, I will not stand in their way; but unless I'm their SF and there is some really compelling reason they need a D, I won't go on with them either.

There really isn't any reason for someone who has 61 laffs to do a DA D, other than their own enjoyment. So if I don't enjoy it, why should I go with them? Isn't it just as fair for me to say "This isn't what you need" when I know they don't actually need it? I didn't personally do a single DA before I had finished my DDL tasks and was maxxed in everything but my piano.

Perhaps an A. That I've done as an attempt to not be "mean." I wouldn't want to do it with only 3 as you described them necessarily, but I can see how it could be done. It still wouldn't eliminate the "oops" that could occur when the cogs and light do their worst, but at least the gags wouldn't run out.

At the end of the day, I don't really think its a question of "can it be done" - but rather "do you want do do it?" I don't think most of us would question whether or not it can be done...its just that we don't want to do it....

Just my two cents.

[Kit T. Kat]

i would love to see the suit requirement put back on the doors of the da offices

but anyone with good teamwork can beat the da office, it could be a team of 129 and some 15 laff uber toons

I personally perfer toons over 100 laff, just incase anything goes wrong then the maxx damage cogs can do is 96

[Deputy Monty]

Originally Posted by LadyDaffodilGiggleMonkey

I would agree, that shuffle is killer. I have even watched my husband's toon with fully maxed gags and very respectable laff 116 be shuffled off the DA elevator by a well known CCG member. No explanation of Sorry I'm helping a friend was offered to him... just shuffle shuffle shuffle shuffle. He gave up, figured they didn't want his skills, well someone else would. He ended up soloing buildings.

Anyway good point the gag experience is worth it for the lower laff.

Concerning your husbands shuffled toon: I've been shuffled on my high laff sounded toons...many times. I always figure friends are trying to get on together and after the second try or so...I just stand back and let 'em have the elevator.

I've taken a few medium laff-low gagged toons thru the DA's. I've had more problems than successes. Often they trip the puzzles rather than wait for those who know something about them to work them. Just like in buildings, they often insist on using sound and never stop long enough to toon up. Many of them nowadays don't even HAVE toonup. The other day, a toon sounded when I lured the elevator cogs...the CLERK elevator cogs in DA "A". He ended up shoveling snow in TB. I wasn't keeping track of his laff or I might have united him.

I have a good friend who runs 2 toons and says he'll take em...but he won't go out of his way to save them if they play stupidly.

As for gag credit...unless you want to trip the lazer cogs and camp on the 6th floor, the DA offices is the absolute WORST place in TT to build gags.

Gag experience in the DA is awarded the same as in bldgs...i.e. the first floor gives street level experience, 2nd floor = 1.5x street lvl, 3rd = 2x, 4 = 2.5x, 5= 3x and gags used on the 6th floor yield 3.5x experience. Now, if you have any gags left by the time you get to the 6th floor, you are so tired of the DA you don't really care about experience.

Contrast that with the factory's 35 cogs that give you 2x experience from the moment you enter...or the Bullion mint that gives 3x experience for up to 44 cogs. Or bldgs with invasions that DOUBLE all that experience. I think toons THINK they are going to bld experience in the DA but I bet they are disappointed.

It's just my opinion mind you but...I don't think many experienced ppl will go in the DA offices until they absolutely have to and they don't have to until they need hundreds of notices. The low-laff toons that hang out at the DA's are just curious. You take your chances when you take them. If I were them, one look at D would be enough for me until I was a bigger toon.

[LadyZippyBoingenpretzel]

We take small toons who need gag work in there all the time. Granted, they're often (but not always) ours or those of friends. so we know how they work. They are actually useful for getting in with no shuffle. Use speedchat to let others know to check your gags and laff, then load that toon first. No one will touch you with a ten foot pole!

I also work with my own and other soundless toons in mints on a regular basis. Same technique applies, as long as you don't get stuck with a wise guy who wants to get you in there just to ditch you, for fun.

Because I'm used to different strategies, I don't care who I go in with. I can get out in record time no matter who is with me, what they're doing or whether they go sad or ditch.

The problem with both is that people both fear and dislike them. They fear that the toon they perceive as "weak" may not know strategy. They dislike that they themselves will now have to think in order to get through. They fear that it may take them a few extra precious moments to get through, and that apparently is more important than being nice and using teamwork. They dislike that this perceived "weak" toon is "forcing" itself on their team. Of all the nerve! Most people will never admit to either term (fear and dislike), of course, but that's basically what it boils down to. Most, even those concerned about time, would rather continue to shuffle for endless amounts of time for the "perfect" team rather than go on in and get it done.

I wish they would bring back the suit requirement too. But then I wouldn't be able to take Quigley and his train in to stop the shuffle and trap the 12s. Oh well...I could live with that.

[cputnal]

Sorry, gotta disagree with that...since I didn't characterize anyone's emotional state or capabilities for wanting to DA as a low laff/gag toon, I would prefer that you didn't either.

I'm not afraid, nor do I dislike them, nor am I incapable of devising strategy to work around low level gags. I simply don't enjoy constantly being a benefactor when I know it isn't necessary for them, nor do I enjoy seeing someone go sad, nor do I enjoy using my unites in a DA when they are much more critical to a VP/CFO/CJ.

As anyone who has seen me whip out my sound with my 25 laffer in the VP knows, there is no fear there at all. And virtually everyone who knows me knows that I take it quite personally when anyone goes sad in the VP when I'm on board. And everybody who knows me knows I'm always low on unites, SOS, etc. 'cause I have no compunction about using them when it is necessary...(well, I won't use the sole Professor Pete I have received in 342 VPs....

Yes, I've run with my own 63 laff black cat and my sons 110 in a DA A, by themselves (can't take Candy that way - no lure). It wasn't particularly easy, but it did get the BW and LE cogs filled in his schticker book, which was my purpose in doing so.

Craig

[cputnal]

Hey - someone's comment up above raised a question that you folks who've been around a longer time would know. I've been told that you don't get credit for holo-cogs. I've always assumed that was true, and thus do the puzzles (I actually like them).

Do you or do you not get credit for holo-cogs?

[Scout]

Originally Posted by LadyZippyBoingenpretzel

Because I'm used to different strategies, I don't care who I go in with. I can get out in record time no matter who is with me, what they're doing or whether they go sad or ditch.

The problem with both is that people both fear and dislike them. They fear that the toon they perceive as "weak" may not know strategy. They dislike that they themselves will now have to think in order to get through. They fear that it may take them a few extra precious moments to get through, and that apparently is more important than being nice and using teamwork. They dislike that this perceived "weak" toon is "forcing" itself on their team. Of all the nerve! Most people will never admit to either term (fear and dislike), of course, but that's basically what it boils down to. Most, even those concerned about time, would rather continue to shuffle for endless amounts of time for the "perfect" team rather than go on in and get it done.

Because I have run more than my fair share of DA office D's, I must comment...LOL To me, the DA is just like any other part of the game, it's a formality, you must endure to progress through the game. Make peace with it, may as well, it's not going away...There were many times on my first toon to progress, thus Law being new, and many more curious "attempts" to "check it out", I would find myself in some pretty pitiful situations, and sure I'd bail, depending on my time and patience level. Each situation is different, to walk out when a toon runs right into a puzzle you can solve after you said, "Wait a minute", "I'll get this one"? was that not nice of me? Shrugs...I tried my best through limited speedchat to convey that I KNEW how to solve that type of puzzle. When I needed an office A or B office to wrap things up, I'd take anyone there, no matter what laff or gags. That is the office where lower laffed/gagged toons, needing Big Wig Powder, and such ought to be encouraged to use, just as we have Coin and Dollar mints in Cash HQ.

[Black Widow Kitty]

If the DA's didn't take SO LONG to get through with everyone using the "known strategy" taking smaller laff toons through wouldn't be a big deal.
Whether it's fair or not, if I see a toon over 100 and one or more gags are not maxed I can't help but think they do not know beneficial strategies. Experienced toons have awesome gags at lower laff.
I don't shuffle, I just wait for them to go away or I go away and come back later.

[Black Widow Kitty]

Originally Posted by cputnal

Hey - someone's comment up above raised a question that you folks who've been around a longer time would know. I've been told that you don't get credit for holo-cogs. I've always assumed that was true, and thus do the puzzles (I actually like them).

Do you or do you not get credit for holo-cogs?

You do not get credit, no extra jury notices. You do get the credit for defeating them as you fulfill your "Defeat 400 cogs" tasks and so forth.

[kyga42066]

Originally Posted by Zaphod

Today, Dudley Doggenton and a 108 laff cat with unmaxed (not really even close) sound, a 107 soundless duck with 3 unmaxed tracks, and a 61 laff dog with some of the worst gags I have ever seen on a 61 laffer completed a "D" office with no casualties.

The funny thing is it really wasn't all that tough. Now to be fair, the soundless duck was the great Luke Warmwater, whose skills are unquestionable, but still.

Maybe its time to rethink the way we try to shuffle the little toons out of the DA elevators. True, they don't need the jn's. True, it's pretty risky for them. Risky yes, impossible, no. 3 toons with decent gags can finish it off anyway.

We were done in a reasonable amount of time, maybe even faster than if we had ditched the little guy when you include shuffle time. The lack of aggrevation more than made up for the small amount of extra thinking it took to make sure everyone danced.

My toons will help any low laffer that is polite and agrees to go into elevator 'A' or 'B'. Low laffers usually don't have the depth of gags to make it in elevator 'C' or 'D'.

If I'm inclined to help, I will take them into low elevators and if they refuse to go, so will I.

I must add one more thing. When we get to the puzzles, especially the skull dodge and skull find, I usually tell them 'Wait Here' in an area back away from the puzzles. If they ignore that and punch into those puzzles and trip them, it is frustrating. However, I have goofed on a few of them myself, but on elevator 'A' and 'B', one set of extra cogs has never made us go sad. I do, however, hang back a few seconds to let the gravity of their situation sink in really deep. Two 10's and two 11's can usally do a bit of damage to a small laffer, but I won't let them get hit alone. I'm NOT that mean, not saying that sometimes I wish they would get hit hard if they keep ignoring a larger toons advice.

Deputy Dynowoof

[LVTP]

Originally Posted by cputnal

At the end of the day, I don't really think its a question of "can it be done" - but rather "do you want do do it?" I don't think most of us would question whether or not it can be done...its just that we don't want to do it....

I don't often get into the headset to get notes - way too many FUN things to do instead! But when I do decide I want to get them, I would rather go short, with less than maxed toons or about anyone rather than spend 30 or MORE minutes shuffling. To me - that is not fun! For me - nothing is worse than the wasted time shuffling.

And where very small toons causing shuffle can be quite annoying, so-called big toons can be just as irritating if not down right mean. I remember taking Dusty to the DA office when he had a Legal Eagle task. Dusty and a couple of sfs (including Birthday Pony - 15lp/maxxed gags) headed straight for A, never nearing D. The only other toons there where a group down at D. They lost no time heading over to us (where we were causing no problems or shuffle) to risky and stink us.