Slideshow or LL/KR

[Murky]

This is my first post about this, although I've read everybody's more than once.

Griefer? That's a toon who chooses to intentionally make somebody sad. Most mistakes made in CCG runs are usually appologzied for, "oops, sorry," and forgiven: "no problem." If a gag isn't supported and a cog lives because he wasn't hit hard enough (didn't see the level) "oops" "no problem." If lure fails and fails again: "sorry" "no problem."

If I use my precious presentation slide show lure that I grew specifically to be helpful in the VP on CCG runs and the toons kill the right cog and the left hits em (cuz gags do miss) "oops" "no problem." It won't kill us, probably, since LLKR has worked for years, and nobody is to blame when gags fail and toons suffer a saduality. I'd know however, that it was preventable...those are the sadualities that make me sad in the midst of the game..every one that was preventable by playing a little smarter. I'd know that the green faced toon leaving wouldn't be leaving if the team had realized that a presentation lure will hold and we could have all attacked the new cog with everything we had..fishing lure, pies, squirts...we'd have killed it for sure.

It's new, there are not many available to use in a run, so it's special...and shouldn't change our lure left kill right...until that particular gag appears. It could take a little to learn to recognize it. I remember when I thought an elephant trunk looked like a big hose...and when tune up balls looked like marbles, and I made huge mistakes according to my misconnection of how to cooperate with the gags. "Oops," "sorry," "no problem," "don't worry," my gosh, some people were nice to me in my newbieness.

I was attracted to the CCG because of the fact that the best players in all of Toontown were at the runs. They were using the smartest strategies, never making mistakes, demonstrating incredible skill. I wasn't their fr so I'd never be invited to a private run with them, but a CCG run was like going on daily private runs with the best players of tt and I could learn something every single run. I'd watch and think..."Why did they choose that gag?" "Why did they choose that cog?" "Why did they stand there?" With enough thought, I learned how to play the game, just by watching. It was all too hard at first, but not impossible to learn. We have new gags now, and it's hard to cope with, but it's not impossible to learn to use them smartly, for the benifit of the team.

It doesn't require a strategy change in the guidelines to sound for a toontanic boat drop, they are rare. I think in the rare times when somebody uses a presentation lure, we will each play the best we are able to for our team. If we don't do it correctly, and the gag is wasted, "sorry," "no problem," "love ya." When somebody uses an extra fog on a line of cogs and it wasn't needed, only the rudest players in tt yell at them for their mistake. If you kill the right cog following my presentation lure that I grew special to use to save toons in the VP, I won't yell; you aren't a griefer in my book. We can learn about the gags; I'm the one who seltzered to cooperate with the ele that I thought was a big hose.

I am looking for keeping the CCG the group that attracted me in the first place....the smartest, best, most skilled, and kindest players in all of Toontown.

[GrannyPickles]

Oh no I woke up with regret of posting. I just really want to apoligize. I haven't attended enough CCG runs as of lately due to playing "the other game" and so I really don't belong commenting since I'm not around recently. Please except my apoligy for opening my mouth where I really don't know.
What was I thinking? Well for one recently on an uber VP I almost killed off Vicky's cute lil uber. Everyone went squirt on the first 12, I never got the squirt memo and was still stuck on going throw on the 12. Well I grabbed a squirt gag fast after the shock of seeing something new being played. I threw out my hose instead of a storm cloud. So we had just an angry 12 staring us down and almost watched Vicky's baby take a trip to the playground due to me. Things like that stirred me enough to post. But really I am not on many CCG runs to comment to this type of thread. So please forgive me of my post.

[Queen Violet Hulawig]

Originally Posted by Good Ol' Murky Paddlefink

I think in the rare times when somebody uses a presentation lure, we will each play the best we are able to for our team.

I couldn't agree more with this! The LLKR strategy should always be the basis for CCG strategy, but as we often sound when with experienced players or go for the higher cogs with ubers, I think it's nice to know about the possibility of going left when presentation is used. It's not something I ever even thought about. The only problem I have is someone insisting on going left when the majority of toons are going right. Also, when with a group of unfamiliar toons (especially cold callers), I will always resort to LLKR unless majority goes the other way. It's a pattern easy for new players to pick out and a way even young kids can play.

[Dizzy]

Originally Posted by littlespike

I have no desire to have my kids play this game by rote. I don't play that way, the best players I know don't play that way, but hey I appreciate the guidelines. My kids play creatively, they explore, they try new things and hopefully, they will find new and innovative aspects of game play.

Please keep that in mind.
Thx- LST

Please keep in mind that some people ~ adults and children alike ~ have no choice but to play by rote.

rote1  –noun 1.routine; a fixed, habitual, or mechanical course of procedure: the rote of daily living. —Idiom 2.by rote, from memory, without thought of the meaning; in a mechanical way: to learn a language by rote.

Main Entry: obsessive–compulsive disorder
Function: noun
: a psychoneurotic disorder in which the patient is beset with obsessions or compulsions or both and suffers extreme anxiety or depression through failure to think the obsessive thoughts or perform the compelling acts —abbreviation OCD

[GrannyPickles]

Note: 3 of my toons are lureless, don't laugh, ... So are *some*of the noteable and absent CCG players I have played with over the past 1.5 years: (I won't name names... GrannyP you know some of em'). They rely on teamwork (i.e CCG'ers to have toons with LURE) to make this work.

Granny has lure I bet somewhere rotfl! Woot!

I'm all for strategy amoung sfs where everyones in the know, all are on the same page ect ect. but for regular CCG run that is impossible. I like to think of myself as a pretty strategic player (Sharon don't tell them how bad my math has gotten since WOW lol) and like Vicky the strategic players in the CCG attracted me too. But that was when I played non stop TT and could keep up.
Now I'm on the other side of the fence, playing TT maybe once a day, only gardening and doing boring DAs which stay very much the same each time. How will someone like me who can't dedicate the constant TT time keep up with all the new strategies being thrown in? If I were on a CCG run I'd just expect it to be LLKR as it has always been except when we just plain sound. If someone like me who is a bit out of touch was on a CCG run when someone like Flippers would start trying to speedchat to me to go left, I'd just plain go crazy in that run. Way to much to put on kids, and people not up with the newest thing. My .02 cents is on a reg run just keep it as it has always worked which does work for all, including WOW players like me popping into TT for a nice little VP for the fun of it.

[Dizzy]

Originally Posted by littlespike

4- Survivability of Ubers was not a primary concern.

I've seen more ubers come on this thread and beg us to please keep LLKR and they will deal with the sadualty if it comes, than I've seen of ubers that beg us to use slideshow/LLKL. Seems the "big toons" (ie. toons that don't have any ubers) are the primary ones that want to use slideshow. Personally, it feels like a big toon wanting to babysit an uber, not what I prefer at all.

[Dizzy]

Originally Posted by littlespike

If I wanted to raise mindless robots... I'd << fill in the blanks >>
a. make them fish/race for me
b. rely 100% on public schools to complete my kids education
c. let them watch SpongeBob marathons
d. go to rigid, rule oriented CCG runs, (I hope not!)

Nuff said - LST

I sent the following in pm, but I am going to post it. Now I'm done with this discussion. Nuff said.

My son suffers from OCD. I've mentioned it previously within that thread. He is not a mindless robot, but if I tell him LLKR, he will LLKR and won't stray from it. He simply *can't* adapt that quickly, which is why I would love to have him attend CCG runs. It is becoming all too evident that he is not welcome on CCG runs with his problems. Perhaps he is not welcome on TT at all. I used to think CCG was a safe environment that even my son could play in, but with all of the discussion, I have been proven wrong. You see, he doesn't *just* suffer from OCD, but he suffers from other problems as well. It is frustrating as a parent to see some of the ways he does things, insisting on it, especially since he has an IQ of 142. He is not stupid, he is not mindless, and he is not a robot, but he simply could NOT adapt within the 20 seconds you have to pick a gag.

[Lady Freckles]

Originally Posted by pixanator

I just wanna know before I come back to playing with the CCG, exactly what I'm supposed to expect when on a VP run.
Due to this thread, I kept myself away from any CCG runs yesterday.
I also deleted my posts in this thread.

I adjust my game play when I run with randoms because I never know what they're going to do.

It was nice to know, when I came to a CCG run, I knew what to expect.

I would say you should expect what you always expect - shuffle free loading, good teamwork and with that, the ability to adjust and adapt to whatever Toontown and the team you are with, throw at you.

[bakntyme]

Obviously, there are many strategies that will work in cog battles. With all "big" toons, we could probably survive a boss battle with nothing but bike horns and tune up (can we carry enough bike horns?). But let's not try that with low or mid-laffers!

I planted lure trees so that my lure would have higher accuracy, primarily to help in CCG VP battles. I know that is is less glamorous than the other "boosted" gags, but I guess I have always lived the supporting, not starring, role. I have slideshow, but my tree hasn't bloomed yet, so it is still low accuracy. My intent is to use it, after the tree has bloomed and it has higher accuracy, when either lures have repeatedly missed or we have a group of huge unlured cogs and a group of not-so-huge toons, in the expectation that as a higher-level gag it will have better accuracy against higher-level cogs. And once the cogs are lured, I plan to continue with LLKR. We have not changed our basic preferred method of play in the VP depending on whether level 4 or level 6 lure was used; why change it for level 7?

Remember that the CCG's primary purpose is to give beginning toons the opportunity to get into a boss battle. I get one of the biggest thrills in Toontown when I am in a VP battle with a new toon, and succeed in teaching LLKR before the end of the cog and skel rounds. Why? Not because it is the only way to play, but because that toon will have learned something that will help them get through the most difficult cog battles that Toontown can throw at them. Could I teach a new player to usually use LLKR, but if someone uses slideshow to switch to LLKL, but if the other side has more low-laffers to sound away as many cogs as possible, but if you have an uber with you kill the highest level cog first, etc. etc. etc., before they graduate to CC2? Should we throw in the peculiar (not bad peculiar, just unique peculiar) desires of individual toons also?

I have not been around Toontown or the CCG nearly as long as many of you, I am about to hit my first year anniversary on Toontown, but I would like to stay with, and go back to as much as possible, the CCG I signed up for...not necessarily the best players, or the highest laff toons in Toontown, but the friendliest, the most forgiving, and the most inclusive group of players one could ask for, as well as a group with its primary mission to accept anyone on its elevators, and what at least I see as a secondary mission to educate new players.

Please remember that Toontown is only a game; further, it is a children's game that many of us adults have been hooked on by watching our kids play. There should be no place, at least in the CCG, for unsportsmanlike behavior; we can express differing views, but please let's stop the name calling and griefing accusations.

When I am in a VP, I will continue to default to LLKR at least when there are what appear to be new players on my side, and try to use the speedchat to convey the strategy to the new players. And I continue to welcome anyone to board with me.

Prof. Frizzy McFuddy

[Little Trixie Huckleboing]

My internet died yesterday while I was trying to post my own opinion and there's even MORE pages now! Yikes.

Here's what I was trying to post:
I woudln't put it in the official guidelines. I know if some toon pulls it out someday at a run the team will then make the decision and it may not follow LLKR, but that will be for that team to decide then, just as we sometimes decide to use sound or to alter the plan in some other way. However, the guide should remain clear and very simple.

However......I have an uber myself (two actually) and think that maybe it would be wise to give a footnote to the presentation/KL strategy in the uber's guide. Not all toons realize just how so very long that lure holds and it is a gag saver and a laff protector to use it in the KL strategy. To keep things nice and clear though I'd keep it out of the normal guidelines and (as I said) just add it to the bit about Uber runs.

That's just my own little opinion though, and you know, opinions are like onions, everyone tears up when one is brought out.

[Princess Trixie Twinkletoes]

Wow! Can't say that I have read this entire thread (matter of fact, I can guarantee you I won't ).

Seems like a simple enough question....should this new strategy/info be added to the "strategy documentation"...

I see no harm in adding this strategy to the Strategies for Battling with an Uber Guide It could easily be added as a note not necessarily as the preferred strategy.

I find that the LLKR strategy is most useful in the VPs as it really just depends on the team you are with...for example, if I am on a side of 120 plus laffers and the other side has four ubers or is short...I am not going LLKR. I will be asking to sound and working as a TEAM to get over and help my TEAM MATES out.

Lets keep things simple...LLKR is the guideline but Teamwork is the spirit of the CCG!


PTT

[Crab E. Dawg]

Originally Posted by littlespike

So... I'm in the camp of adapt, adjust and try to communicate teamwork.
My youngest kid played LLKR at first in any scenario, now she is learning the fine art of teamwork, "in-game" communication for strategy/coordination. (I will not allow her on these boards for obvious reasons, even adults get slammed for their communication). My kids have never read these guidelines, and I don't think it's a good idea to read some of this....

I have no desire to have my kids play this game by rote. I don't play that way, the best players I know don't play that way, but hey I appreciate the guidelines. My kids play creatively, they explore, they try new things and hopefully, they will find new and innovative aspects of game play.

Please keep that in mind.
Thx- LST

October of last year this was your view.

You have no desire to have your kids play this game by rote? I am glad you and your children have had a year to improve your game skills and now she is learning the fine art of teamwork and "in -game" communication for strategy/coordination.

My question is this...Last year when you wanted to keep it simple, make it so they know when to show up, board the elevator and have simple rules that everyone can follow would adding another strategy, and another if this happens then do this, to the rules have made it simple for your children?

Again, I glad your children have had a chance to grow and keeping it simple is no longer a concern for you and them, however there are many that would like to continue to keep it simple. Adding something else to the mix and another do this if this happens does not do that.

I just do not see another guideline and strategy as making it simple. I see more people having a problem knowing what to do and trying to understand why the team is no longer LLKR. Let's not even think of the ones that run with us that have not even read this thread.

I say, as you said last year "Keep it simple, make it so they know when to show up, board the elevator and have simple rules that everyone can follow." is what the CCG is all about.

Originally Posted by littlespike Oct 2005

I asked them, without talking about all the other stuff going on, what they wanted and it came down to this:

1- Keep it simple, make it so they know when to show up, board the elevator and have simple rules that everyone can follow.

2- Prevent shuffle.

3- Help each other so everyone has a chance to finish. By nice, be respectful and try to be tolerant of others.

4- Keep the JB fest going (something I guess the Ubers did)

While I respect the desires of some to have colloquial experiences, train, build gags, poke fun, etc... I would like the CCG to keep it simple, help players of all ages and experience improve, and promote a safe, fun atmosphere. If this becomes more geared toward adults and their social experience, I would like to see if we can do something as well for our youth.

[Good Ol Zigzag Jabbertoon]

Originally Posted by cfb

I read carefully and completely. I also post carefully, avoiding overquoting but leaving a link back to the quoted post. I do not find that the rest of your paragraph changes the apparent meaning of its topic sentence. However, I accept your explanation that that apparent meaning is not what you intended.

As I read it again I am not worried about the apparent meaning and what I intended.

I am sure, as I have now posted it twice, that the meaning is what I have intended. It does not seem that my explanation has helped you better understand, as you think my explanation was that the meaning is not what is posted. If you need more understanding please feel free to to take this to PM, as a battle of the minds is not what this thread needs.

Thanks,

[DJ Max]

Guys, understand one thing - there is no rocket science in going for a left cog when presentation (lvl7 lure) is used , it is not even switching from LLKR to LLKL (as no LL is needed ) it is simply about:

"Lets all go for the same cog!"

which is another "golden rule" of the CCG and as traditional as LLKR!

There is no confusion of basic CCG strategies in going for a same cog, you have all needed simple speed chat phrases which are indicating one's intentions: "Let's all go for the same cog!" and "Follow me!"

My personall experience with low laffers/unexperienced toons shows - that beginners, especially kids are more than willing to be guided during cog/scelecog battle. Except for VERY rare cases: most of beginners, young toons are sensitive to indications and eager to follow a guide of a more experienced player. "Use the speed chat!"

Thats what I see during runs with CCG (I prefer the first loads - I also like challenege ) as well as during runs with randoms, where I keep and apply the CCG basic principles:

No discrimination according to suit/laff/gag level when loading. Keep the team work best as you can so that maximum possible happy faces will dance in the end!

Yes , keep it simple silly -

"Let's all go for the same cog!"

[Loopy Fancy Pinkerpounce]

I have read most of the posts in this thread and quite frankly it's just a shame where some of the posts have lead. So it's with great trepidation that I post on this issue. However, I have some pretty strong feelings on this so here goes... Don't throw anything at me!

When I first started playing, I walked (OK played the shuffle game) into a few random VP's scared to death and not having a clue as to what to do. After going sad more than a few times I found the CCG and read as much as I could about the battle and how to deal with those HUGE cogs I was going to face. As I read the strategy guide I thought WOW you mean I can go into a battle and just pick a gag, go right and everyone else will too. Awesome, I can understand that! And that's just what I did and it worked!! I made it through the cogs! WOO HOO!

As I continued to play I learned a little more strategy and tried to adapt my playing style more for the good of the team in general, something I was uncapable of doing when I first started playing. A whole list of things could be added in the strategy guide, but if there is too much info it just gets confusing. For the new players old and young, let's keep it simple.

Adjust your play as the team deems necessary during play and have a ball doing it!