Complications Organising Boss Runs

[Princess Rainbow Featherfoot]

Sorry if someone has posted a thread about this somewhere else, I've tried looking for something similar.

I've been using Yahoo (single messaging and conferencing) for ages in conjunction with TT and Teamspeak for use with TT too for two years. They are both very useful things to having running alongside TT, particularly during these boss battle runs when there are a lot of people playing.

If there is a problem with using both these programs alongside TT, I can see it being the fact that there are a lot of different people who are only getting small parts of conversations because ...

Some people can see typed stuff on Yahoo but don't have headsets
Some people can hear but not speak on TS or Yahoo
Some people are on TS but not Yahoo
Some people are on voice on Yahoo but not TS
Some people aren't on either Yahoo or TS

And there are probably other combinations I've not thought of! All this is great - being able to communicate properly with people who you are not SFs with but because of the above combinatioins, some people are only getting one side of conversations. For instance, might see a group is being formed for something but can't get any more information because those involved are too bogged down with other voice chats organising it or something.

I was guilty myself last Friday night causing problems by typing responses to voicechatting on yahoo (I could hear Yahoo voice chat but had to type my responses on the screen as I couldn't use the mic, which really confused the people who could read it but not hear the conversation).

I have no solutions to these problems. If anyone does, that's great! I just wanted to put here how I see it sometimes and maybe provide a reason why things can get complicated on TT.

Any suggestions or comments?

[mildew102]

I didn't realize the people were using the voice chat during our runs too! I don't have voice hooked up on my laptop, and also don't have the version of YM that supports it. I know other members who don't use voice chat.

One of the biggest problems is that all of our members aren't in the conference. If there are non-forum members at the run, we probably won't have them in chat or SF, but we can't forget them!

I know this is something we need to work on. Friday's LunchBunch is somewhat less disorganized than it was when we started, but there is still room for improvement.

These are my suggestions for the present:

** Each event should have a point person. Generally, I think, this will be the original poster. Check the forum postings for any specifics before the event.

** Check the calendar thread for updates. Steve and I are working on keeping the calendar updated with the correct run times and districts. Not all runs are called for Kookyboro. If the run is moved to a backup district, we should post a quick message on the forum.

For those of you who want to participate in the conversation during runs (or lurk for run directions and Truth-or-Dare fodder):

1) all ATTA forum members who are attending boss runs should get a YM account. If you don't want to publish the ID on your user page, post it in our secret forum. If that also doesn't make you comfortable, send a PM or YM to the group's organizer so you can be conferenced in.
* You do not need to be "friends" on YM with everyone in a conference, just one member of the conference to invite you in.

2) for MSN or other IM accounts, create a YM account for conferences. Then, signon to YM before the run so we can invite you to the conference.

3) when we load an elevator, if you are not on your main toon let the conference know who your toon is so we can match the YM to the player.

4) the point person should use YM-typing to pass information as not everyone uses voice.

5) please be careful on speedchat - members have been suspended referring to "IM" and "Yahoo"

I am glad we have so many members trying to come play. I know we can improve the process so everyone has fun and no one is left behind!

[MamaJ]

Im confused. For the boss runs: why cant we just load the elevators and go? I dont have voice chat, I dont always load my yahoo, I am not the only one. My suggestion: Load the elevators and go.

[Princess Rainbow Featherfoot]

Originally Posted by cool crumblepow

Im confused. For the boss runs: why cant we just load the elevators and go? I dont have voice chat, I dont always load my yahoo, I am not the only one. My suggestion: Load the elevators and go.

Sometimes this works. Most of the time it does.

I just decided to post this as a sort of non-direct response to problems with boss battles yesterday and wondered if any confusion during those might have been avoided with more organisation beforehand (where, for instance, there were not enough people for two elevators and perhaps having two groups of six would have been best for one of the boss runs I heard about????).

[fatewineroses]

We definitely need to hear suggestions, but this needs to be addressed within the Council before any fast and hard rules are implemented for the Boss runs. I do NOT want to limit those coming to boss runs to only those ppl using YM or voice chat. There are many of us who do not have the benefit of those devices, or do not want to bother with them. Some of us have lag issues when we use them. I don't think that we want to limit our boss runs to only those who are capable of running Yahoo or voice chat.

Cherie
Grand Poobah, ATTA

[Fireball Mcmonkey]

I was invited to a voice chat & joined, but I just typed info like usual. Is there something different going on via headphones?

Also, Jen, I went on a VP with my Uber & we had too many for one run. I think there were 14 total. I went sad because there were only 6 on my elevator & 8 on the other. Many agreed more talk would have been helpful before boarding to make sure everyone's on same page, so to speak.

ATTA elevator boarding are certainly different than CCG. Usually takes a few minutes of organizing. Point person is good idea.

[MamaJ]

Originally Posted by Fireball Mcmonkey

I was invited to a voice chat & joined, but I just typed info like usual. Is there something different going on via headphones?

Also, Jen, I went on a VP with my Uber & we had too many for one run. I think there were 14 total. I went sad because there were only 6 on my elevator & 8 on the other. Many agreed more talk would have been helpful before boarding to make sure everyone's on same page, so to speak.

ATTA elevator boarding are certainly different than CCG. Usually takes a few minutes of organizing. Point person is good idea.

I had to sit out a run because too much talk. We ended up talking forever then many non attas came too, and they got on elevator and I didnt. I bowed out to allow others to have fun too, but I was one of the first ones there.

[Princess Rainbow Featherfoot]

Originally Posted by Fireball Mcmonkey

I was invited to a voice chat & joined, but I just typed info like usual. Is there something different going on via headphones?

Actually, you are probably not missing much by not being able to hear what's being said. Most of the people using voice are also typing and reading Yahoo text.

I like being on voicechat because you can react instantly if someone says (for instance) "watch out there's a live goon behind you" or maybe "you take my crane and I'll stomp". But I do appreciate the many reasons why people don't do voicechat, for instance family at home or strain on the computer.

[mildew102]

Just a quick update. Friday Lunch Bunch went smoother this week. We sent off loads when we had enough. The first one left less than 5 minutes after the run time, the next about 10 minutes later. The last one was till trying to pull together about 1:30 ET, but I think they got off too.

The following helped us this week:
1) IM or PM group leader so we know you are coming
2) setting your YM status message so we know you are coming or not.

Thanks to everyone who participated!

[canadianloonie]

I wanted to apologize to everyone on the last Lunch/Brunch run. I was on Serendipity and on the conference. What I discovered with my computer (or is it me?) is that I can't get into the HQ doors when on the conference. Is it Vista problem? I don't know...

On top of that I went on an earlier load than was planned (although I thought I was on the right one) and went green right away but that was no ones fault -Welcome to Toontown!

Just sorry if I held anyone up trying to get into those doors and for any confusion...

Tracy


Simba (108 soundless)
Serendipity (16 sell uber in training)
Spirit Bear (60 going to be trapless)
Lulu Lemon (baby)

[Scooter Wondertoon]

In one of the very first runs I was in with the group we had a similar problem where I believe a few didn't make the run at all because we had too few for two full loads of eight, yet too many for a load of eight and a reasonable number for a second load. At least I at the time, and I think maybe some others, weren't sure of everybody else's comfort level as far as loading 'short' and if I remember correctly, there weren't alot of toons who were able to communicate with each other on the platform. A few of us came back after the first run to try for a second run, but the ones who didn't make it had gone (understandably).

After that happened and some discussion here, I understood that if we didn't have enough for two full loads of eight, we'd split equally. If we had 12, we'd split 6/6, 11 then 6/5, 10 then 5/5, subject to each person's comfort level. Steve posted guidelines afterward allowing for the suggested number of people for each Boss along with the ability to opt out at one's own discretion. He also included tips for battling with a 'short' load which I think are excellent.

A.T.T.A.: Boss Battle Runs

This past Saturday and Sunday evening were the first runs I've made in a couple of weeks due to Boss, but I recall everyone easily following the suggested guidelines on the runs I've attended without any perceived problems. I think in Saturday's CFO we somewhat agreed to split 7 and 7, and if I recall correctly I got off the first elevator to even the load and a little 'shuffle' occurred, but then it was fine. In Sunday's CEO a few stayed back because we had 11 or 12 I think, and in the CFO that followed we had too few for 2 full loads of 8, yet if the first load would have gone with 8, some would have been left back. We had enough offering to stay back so that a full load of 8 could go, and we had enough offering to go 'short'. I think I heard a couple of challenges to go in groups of 4 (I loved Margaret's acceptance of the 4-person challenge on YIM - I wish I could remember it verbatim to put it here).

Ultimately, we ended up waiting for some toons that I think others called to join us. The first load went with 6 and I think I heard the second with 8. There seemed to be alot of confusion or discussion over who would load with whom, but I believe we initially had enough to go at least 5 and 5 if all were willing, and I'm certain there were a couple that would have gone with 4, myself included, easily (and at our own risk!).

It's alot of fun having the ability to communicate with each other outside of the ordinary Toontown methods, but if the regularly scheduled runs are intended to be open to all even for purposes of attracting new members, I'm speculating not everyone will have the abilility to communicate with everyone else outside of Toontown's methods at least at first.

To avoid delays, confusion, and frustration, I might suggest the group consider adopting the guidelines in Steve's thread as "official" and let's just 'load and go' and have some fun. As the group grows, I'd imagine eventually the options of loading 'short' or opting out would fall on the last 2 or even 3 groups to go or late arrivals. The guidelines are excellent and reasonable, a schedule of runs are included, and I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that members and non-members alike would or should have read them prior to attending any of the scheduled runs.

Those are my thoughts on the subject.

[mildew102]

Hee hee. We are considering two loads of 6/4 and I said something along the lines of ... I stink at both cranes and goons; so if there was a group who was comfortable going with 4, that was the one I should go with!

There are definately different styles of organizing and loading. We did go 6/8 last night. Big thanks to those who called on friends to come and play.

Lunch Bunch on Friday we took the load and go and sent of groups of 6 or so. We ended up with three loads, first one going 4 min. after run time and the last one at 25 minutes after run tme. It worked well. Last night, we waited for the whole group to gather, and organized the teams based on experience. It also worked. It took longer for any group to load because we went together.

At last night's run, everyone was on conference. If there were non-lounge members or non-chat people, it would have been a challenge. I agree that the none one should be left behind. All organizers should take this into consideration. I think the organizer should let people know if we are _load and go_ or _wait and balance_ so people can guage their time.

[Boop]

Thanks for the feedback from yesterday's run.

CEO did have too many to go and appreciate those that stepped back so others could attend. One member was dealing with disconnects and apologized for the delay.

CFO was a little different. Toons went sad in an earlier CFO after one disconnected and the remaining being left with only one craner (the entire team went sad). I was asked to join and help coordinate this run. We did have a slight delay waiting for additional players as a few people did not feel comfortable going short since the earlier CFO did not end well. Once we got the players needed, we took time to determine who craned and who stomped, as to avoid a repeat of the earlier CFO, also mentioned in Steve's Boss Battle Guide:

CFO: Minimum members in this group should be no less than 5. In a group of 5 it is best to have 3 experienced craners and 2 stompers, unless 1 of the members is an experienced stomper, then that single individual can take care of both sides of the battle.

When craners are in short supply, it is best to block off one side of the doors to the CFO with a safe or two and just manage the CFO from the other side with the 2 remaining cranes.

There was no way of knowing who craned and stomped without asking and dividing the groups, nor the experience level of each. Groups were chosen based on an even level of craners and stompers to give the best possible chance for victory. This is a method I am accustomed to, but realize members at CFO were not. I apologize for the delay and appreciate everyone's patience coordinating these two successful runs.

I am also all for the "load and go" mentality but concerns were specifically expressed to me from members in the form of "I am sick of going sad, please help." Again, thanks to everyone for their patience and congrats on a successful run.

[Scooter Wondertoon]

I mentioned that I hadn't made the last couple of weekend runs and didn't realize there were alot of sadualities or even organizers in place. It's probably posted somewhere, but I missed it. I will apologize to the group attending the CFO Sunday night; I would have been happy to step back early to accomodate those that had specifically requested help.

I know the frustrations of not being able to win and the desire to play with a team who will help you secure a win. I know the training is out there for those who feel the need to improve their skill level.

I guess my thoughts are do we as a group really want to go so far as to assess each player's level of expertise and organize teams on the scheduled runs accordingly? And if so, how does the group handle prospective new members or 'randoms' that may attend the runs?

[Boop]

I think the runs can be organized pretty quickly and efficiently. My thoughts:

SBHQ:
Ubers stand to one side of the pit
One person matches up the rest, sends ubers with groups, etc.
I think ubers are the consideration needed in sell, the rest can use the "load and go" method if no ubers are present. This is already being done.

CBHQ:
I believe this is the most critical boss where balance is needed. Craners stand to one side, gooners stand on the other. People are matched according to occupation, not individual expertise level at that occupation. Organizer forms the groups and sends them in. (I have seen this work in another group and although it takes a minute to organize, I don't ever remember seeing anyone go sad on their runs)**. Anyone attending can easily get used to this method; if someone new doesn't know about it then they won't be standing to a side and can easily be identified.

LBHQ & BBHQ:
I believe both of these bosses can benefit from the "load and go" method. Anyone not familiar with these bosses can always go with a group or request individual training.


These are just my thoughts and opinions. I look forward to more suggestions to streamline these runs as much as possible with positive outcomes and fun experiences while implementing the guidelines set forth by Steve.



**Credit for CBHQ method given to Trish from Stratics