Strategy alternative to 1fog/3ele

[Kehawin]

This strategy, in my opinion, is faster, because if done correctly it does not require toon- up be used at all (unless lure misses). In the “One fog three elephants strategy”, at least one toon always gets hit, unless the cog misses. Eventually, someone has to use toon-up, approximately every three to four rounds, which takes up time, and also removes that toon from one round of cog-killing. In this strategy, each battle, if done correctly and no gag misses, takes two rounds; each toon uses two gags; and the cogs do not get an opportunity to hit any toons. In this way, the whole mint goes much faster. If all the toons in the mint have maxed fog horn, this allows the mint to go quickly without “conserving sound” by killing quickly with sound (two fogs/two elephants) in the beginning battles and using this strategy when fogs run out. If there is a toon without sound, or without maxed sound, this allows the other toons to use sound in the beginning battles while the soundless or un-maxed toon assists in what way h/she can, and then use this technique in the latter battles. In addition, this technique works very well if you find yourself in the mint with three toons rather than four. And lastly, as an added benefit to anyone who really likes their sound… if you plan this strategy, and then find yourself with restock sound barrels, the mint goes super-fast without having had the “conservation of sound” slowing you down!

The strategy itself is a little bit more difficult than the “one fog three elephants” technique, however, and therefore will be more difficult for the beginning, or possibly even the intermediate player to implement. While working this out, it has been a long road. Several long time friends worked some of this out instinctively over several months of play together, while some of it was worked out by intensive study since the Cash HQ has come out. Quite a few toons, even secret friends, have been unable to master the technique, while others were able grasp the concept well.

Although it isn’t perfect yet, we are hoping some people will be willing to at least try. When we have been able to have all four toons in the mint play this way, the bullion mint is unbelievably fast, with the added benefit of knowing that we are doing it with finesse.

THE STRATEGY

The first and most important concept is that with the exception of the supervisor and the all 11 skelecogs, all battles should be engaged FIRST with a LEVEL 10 COG. That means, touch a level 10 cog, not the level 11. This is important, because in the bullion mint, each and every time, the cog on the toons’ right gets the lure bonus. It’s important even if you plan to use sound, because if sound misses you will use lure. This 10 on the right can be killed by one toon alone.

Next, watch where any level 11s go. This is of secondary importance, and is just basic to any battle. Always know your cog levels, and always know what gags are needed to take those cog levels out.

The basics of sound, as most know, are that 2 fogs/1 elephant/1 aoogah or 3 fogs are needed to take out 11s. 1 fog/3 elephants or 2 fogs/1 elephant are needed to take out 10s.

Now for the non-sound technique. So we have the 10 on the right. I usually try to touch the cogs so that I have them lined up like this: 10-11-11-10 or 10-11-10-10. It just depends on which cog you touch first which way they line up.

You have one person lure. The other people are going to take out two cogs. Even if all three of them have trap, there is no reason for them to all use TNT at once, unless it is the last battle and they all have TNT left. The three toons not luring should concentrate on the inner two cogs. If the inner two cogs are taken out first, the remaining two cogs will then get lure bonus. If those are 10s, then they can be taken out with two cream pies each.

Here is where it matters what gags your group has.

Here is a list of options I have used.
For 10s or 11s:
Lure-TNT
Lure-small trap- piano
Lure-trap (quick sand or trap door)-birthday cake
Lure-hose-piano
Lure-birthday cake-cream pie
Lure-cloud-safe
Lure-birthday cake-1 ton drop
Lure-seltzer-piano

For 10s:
Lure-trap-cloud
Lure-birthday cake-small pie
Lure-cloud-hose or seltzer

On the next round:
For 10s that will get lure bonus:
Birthday cake
Two cream pies
Cloud-hose
Cloud-drop (ton or safe)
Squirt-piano
Cream pie-piano
Three hoses

For 11s that will get lure bonus:
Birthday cake-cream pie
Three cream pies
Cloud-hose
Cloud-safe
Squirt-piano
Cream pie-piano

In the Supervisor battle: Touch the supervisor first, so that he goes to the right if you need him to get lure bonus so that one Birthday cake and one cream pie or two clouds will take him, instead of requiring two birthday cakes. If you need to take out an 11 with one cloud and one hose, then touch an 11 to go the right.

LURE BONUS:

Although the lure bonus situation is not easy to always predict, there are some basic ones that are almost (or are) always true:
*THE COG ON THE TOONS’ RIGHT ALWAYS GETS LURE BONUS.
*If one of the inner cogs is killed first, all three of the other cogs will almost always get lure bonus
*If the two outer cogs are killed first, the inner cogs will almost never get lure bonus.
*If one inner cog and one outer cog are killed in the first round, they should not be two that were next to each other. If they are staggered (in other words, if there is a cog between the two that are killed), then the remaining two cogs will both get lure bonus.
*If you find yourself with one cog left, rest assured: no matter which one he was in the beginning, one single cog left on the last round will always get lure bonus.

Experiment with this technique. Of course there will be times (often at first) when someone with you will not understand what you are doing and it won’t go smoothly. Most people have insisted it isn’t a valid plan until they try it. So far, though, everyone who has seen it work, REALLY work, likes it. If you find something you would like to add, let me know!

[C.P. Whiskerseed]

Actually,Lure bonuses are random.Squrit does it more than throw.
Storm cloud has a veeery low chance of not getting bounes.
And if all 4 toons attack one lured cog,it will automatically bounes.

[Kehawin]

Originally Posted by C.P. Whiskerseed

Actually,Lure bonuses are random.Squrit does it more than throw.
Storm cloud has a veeery low chance of not getting bounes.
And if all 4 toons attack one lured cog,it will automatically bounes.

Thanks for bumping my post

[Tinkercat]

Love it!!!

[Deputy Monty]

Originally Posted by C.P. Whiskerseed

Actually,Lure bonuses are random.Squrit does it more than throw.
Storm cloud has a veeery low chance of not getting bounes.
And if all 4 toons attack one lured cog,it will automatically bounes.

Where in the world did you come up with this? In my experience, lure bonus has nothing to do with whether you hit with throw or squirt. It has to do with how the cogs are lined up, the order in which they are killed and when in the battle you get them...i.e. in a building the succeeding bunch of cogs that offload the elevator (after the initial cogs) often have cogs that will not get knockback bonus.

Using maxed gags, a storm and hose will take out a 10 regardless of whether it gets bonus. All 4 toons using the same gag will usually generate enough to kill and you get 20 percent bonus on top of the points generated by the gag you used to kill.

You have one person lure. The other people are going to take out two cogs. Even if all three of them have trap, there is no reason for them to all use TNT at once, unless it is the last battle and they all have TNT left. The three toons not luring should concentrate on the inner two cogs. If the inner two cogs are taken out first, the remaining two cogs will then get lure bonus. If those are 10s, then they can be taken out with two cream pies each.

I don't understand how three toons are going to take out the two middle cogs which usually do not get knockback bonus...unless one of them has tnt. Even then you only have enough tnt for 2 rounds.

The better plan would be for one to cake the 10 on the far R and the other two attack the middle cog not next to the the one on the far R.

I have taken out the end cogs and gotten knockback bonus on the two remaining inside cogs. I think it depends on the location of the first cog you touch, how they line up and stuff.

Anyway..good post!!

I do have a couple of problems...one is that strangers are less likely to buy into this method and therefore it could take longer to choose gags, cogs, etc. Another is that I've done plenty of mints where sound gags didn't miss but I've done few mints where lure didn't miss at least once, often more than once.

I would like to see this method timed a few times against an all sound run. With strangers, I've done all sound runs (44 cogs) in 14 minutes and we weren't really hurrying...just efficient. I realize not all 44-cog mints are created equal but it would be interesting to see how fast you can do it.

[Loosy Goosy]

The real object (most would agree) is to have as few turns per battle as
possible. The problem is there are way too many toons who favor the
1-fog/3-trunk strategy to the point that it makes the run longer. I'll take
a run with more SINGLE-TURN battles than a run that forces more
DOUBLE-TURN SOUND battles. The other DOUBLE-TURN battles can be
handled with other gags.

The other 'trend' I've noticed is toons for whatever reason feel the need to
spare their fogs for the Supervisor group, even though the rest of the team
could really have used that damage earlier on. It's so prevalent that it's comical.

[bobdude1]

Lure bonus is random with a 50% bonus.

When all gags are maxxed:
Level 12: 3 Fogs/1 Elephants
Level 11: 2 Fogs/2 Elephants
Level 10: 1 Fog/ 3 Elephants
Level 9: -See above-
Level 8: 4 Elephants

[Deputy Monty]

Originally Posted by bobdude1

Lure bonus is random with a 50% bonus.

When all gags are maxxed:
Level 12: 3 Fogs/1 Elephants
Level 11: 2 Fogs/2 Elephants
Level 10: 1 Fog/ 3 Elephants
Level 9: -See above-
Level 8: 4 Elephants

You do not get lure bonus on sounded cogs. NOT EVER Nvm .. I see you are not referrring to getting a bonus on sounded lured cogs.

[Kehawin]

Originally Posted by Deputy Monty

I don't understand how three toons are going to take out the two middle cogs which usually do not get knockback bonus...unless one of them has tnt. Even then you only have enough tnt for 2 rounds.
The better plan would be for one to cake the 10 on the far R and the other two attack the middle cog not next to the the one on the far R.

You are right, of course, if there is no one with trap at all, then the cog on the right comes into play on the first (lure) round.
However, if you use up your TNT in two rounds, you still have 5 trap doors and however many sand traps. And if only one person has trap, that means that 3 others have drop...

I have taken out the end cogs and gotten knockback bonus on the two remaining inside cogs. I think it depends on the location of the first cog you touch, how they line up and stuff.

Have seen it happen too, but haven't seen it enough to figure it out. Think it may have something to do with whether or not the first cogs are killed in one hit? Or whether they were killed in one round or two? Not really sure... Will try to keep watching. Have been working on this since it first came out on test.

[C.P. Whiskerseed]

Deputty Monty,Are you a mod here?
Anyway,I have to dissagree with you.
Someone killed outer cogs with throw,and I still got a lure bounes with my squrit.
it was skele,sooo.

[Deputy Monty]

Originally Posted by Kehawin

You are right, of course, if there is no one with trap at all, then the cog on the right comes into play on the first (lure) round.
However, if you use up your TNT in two rounds, you still have 5 trap doors and however many sand traps. And if only one person has trap, that means that 3 others have drop...
Have seen it happen too, but haven't seen it enough to figure it out. Think it may have something to do with whether or not the first cogs are killed in one hit? Or whether they were killed in one round or two? Not really sure... Will try to keep watching. Have been working on this since it first came out on test.

Cogs in the mint that do not get lure bonus require hits from two toons except if using TNT or dropping a piano. If someone uses a trap door and another a piano, then the third must hit the 10 on the R with a cake. The Middle R cog NEVER gets bonus...does the Middle L cog if it is one of the first hit? If so then one could cake the Middle L and the other two attack the Middle R cog. But since the last two almost always get bonus anyway, why take the chance....just have one person cake the cog on the far R and the other two attack the Middle L cog. In later rounds, TNT one of the middle ones and have 2 toons attack the other middle cog.

I have a couple of pet peeves which include someone trapping that 10 on the R. Why take away the lure bonus (trap door) or use your TNT to kill a cog that everyone doing the mints can kill? (assuming that everyone has a strong cake by the time they are running the bullion on a regular basis).

Also, drop misses a lot of the time. Unless you are topping off a piano or running out of other gags, why not hit the cogs with enough cake or water to kill then rather than risk a miss by not killing with the first shot.

[Kehawin]

Originally Posted by Deputy Monty

Cogs in the mint that do not get lure bonus require hits from two toons except if using TNT or dropping a piano. If someone uses a trap door and another a piano, then the third must hit the 10 on the R with a cake. The Middle R cog NEVER gets bonus...does the Middle L cog if it is one of the first hit? If so then one could cake the Middle L and the other two attack the Middle R cog. But since the last two almost always get bonus anyway, why take the chance....just have one person cake the cog on the far R and the other two attack the Middle L cog. In later rounds, TNT one of the middle ones and have 2 toons attack the other middle cog.

From my experience, the only single cog that gets lure bonus on the first round is the cog on the right. So yes, you are right, unless all toons in the group have TNT and sound has been used (meaning there aren't 36-44 cogs to deal with one-by-one), the toons cannot concentrate on the inner cogs each battle. I guess I over-emphasized the "inner cogs" thing too much. But like you, it drives me nuts when someone goes for the right-hand cog with a trap door or adds a cream pie to someoene else's bday cake, especially when it leaves one other toon with nothing to aim at or if someone is running low on gags.

Thanks for helping work out some of these questions!

[rkhooda]

Good post Kehawin... I think there is a bit more randomness in the lure bonus than you state.

I agree with touching a lvl 10 cog first. Thats allways a good idea. Also to cake the level 10 on the right over 90% of time it will give you lure bounus (I have seen it not happen before too).

Sound is obviously the fastest way through the mint. Loosy what do you mean two round battles are slower? I know what you mean with one fog per round gets to a point of religion with some toons. But if there is no fog barrels around, using one fog per battle should make the 4 toons get to end with out a need for a refill. On the second round of battle its just a bit of clean up with 2 aoogas and 2 toonups. Or, toons can train their drop or trap. I think thats faster than any other strategy. If you see fog barrels tho, I agree finish the fight in one round, because you can fill up again.

I love doing runs with toons that dont have sound. I have seen some brilliant strategy from these toons. They have to think outside the box, so you see excellent use of drop, throw, lure, toonup, or squirt from them. That is why its allways important to atleast see where the 11's line up, so you know which cog will survive the sound round and you can pick them off.

When you play with experienced toons, the advantage is when you miss. That group recovers much faster than a non experienced group. Recovering from a miss would be a better strategy to write.

I dont think you can make a general strategy for the mint tho. I have been in 44 cog mints that took under 15 minutes, and have been in 44 cog mints that took more than 45 minutes. But either way, we have to try and work around toons that dont know what they doing. If a toon is using a small trap then you piano. But arguing over gag selection will often make the timer run out.

You can make any battle faster by adapting your strategy to the toons you are with.

Prince Peppy Gigglebounce
112 max no lure

[Kehawin]

Originally Posted by C.P. Whiskerseed

Deputty Monty,Are you a mod here?
Anyway,I have to dissagree with you.
Someone killed outer cogs with throw,and I still got a lure bounes with my squrit.
it was skele,sooo.

What does being a mod have to do with it? Deputy Monty, Loosy Goosy, and I and quite a few other players who use lure bonus dependably are players who have been around for a while. Soooo... here's a question...

When this skele got lure bonus from you with squirt after the outer cogs were killed with throw, were the outter cogs killed in the same round, or a previous one? Was the Skeleton cog the last cog standing? Something I didn't put into the original post, because it doesn't fit into the strategy (the whole point of the strategy is to kill two cogs each round) is that THE LAST COG STANDING ALWAYS GETS LURE BONUS NO MATTER WHERE HE STARTED OUT. Does that help explain why you got lure bonus on your skeleton?
If you do not want to learn anything from this post, that is fine, but please don't post misleading information for those who might.

Have a nice day.

[Kehawin]

Originally Posted by rkhooda

I love doing runs with toons that dont have sound. I have seen some brilliant strategy from these toons. They have to think outside the box, so you see excellent use of drop, throw, lure, toonup, or squirt from them. That is why its allways important to atleast see where the 11's line up, so you know which cog will survive the sound round and you can pick them off.

When you play with experienced toons, the advantage is when you miss. That group recovers much faster than a non experienced group. Recovering from a miss would be a better strategy to write.

I am by nature a soundless toon... so consider this a "Soundless Toon's Guide To Recovering From a Miss" if you like!