Sad and frustrated

[rkhooda]

Originally Posted by Zippy

... most of the people I know went sad thier first three times in VP. That didnt slow any of us down.

9 times for me.

[Mister Harvey Wondergadget]

Originally Posted by Panzerfaust

While I always do my best to keep any toon alive once he's up there with me I do sorta wonder why low laff toons feel the need to be at the vp in the first place. I mean, there are plenty of things for them to do at that level that would actually benefit them. And they do present somewhat of a risk for the other members of the vp-party. Personally I didn't bother to try the vp until I had 80+ laff. I can understand others who want to do it a bit earlier, but why not at least get Lil Oldman done first?

Yeah I know there's a task to take a 50 to the vp. I just don't see why people would want to be that 50.

And I can't think of anything good to say about those 50s that keep forcing themselves on parties that are trying to gather at the elevator. If people keep jumping off and/or saying 'I think this is too risky for you', take the hint. Please. People say it because they're concerned about themselves, not you. Who can blame them? You may be the best low laff toon in the world, but how can they know? Why should they risk having to do an additional X factory runs on that? Just don't be surprised if people are upset that you're there if you manage to sneak in anyway after an exhausting episode of elevator shuffling.

We want to be that 50 laffer because if noone is one then there will be noone to help with the tasks!

[Zippy]

It is funny that a few 109 laff toons I know hate to try to take thier little toons to the elevator. Any toon less than 90 seems to clear out most elevators and I have also had difficulty taking my small toons into VP. Nothing clears out an elevator quicker than a ColdCaller. Though I have to say I have never had problems once in the fight. Unless of course it was a group of inexperianced toons and they just played badly.

Edit: When I say hate to take their small toon to elevator, I mean outside of an established group.

[Panzerfaust]

Originally Posted by WizardHawk

That argument works both ways. Disney keeps TT as an open realm and has no areas that are 'off limits' to toons of various levels. We have all seen 15's and 16's attempting to fight on lullaby lane haven't we? Sure, for those higher toons that will only go with other higher toons, those of us who have smaller toons do pose a problem. Since this is an open game and we have a right to play it our way too, their self imposed requirements for other toons poses a problem for us. This situation works both ways and is exactly what I've been saying. This isn't the fault of just one side, its the responsiblity of both parties.

It is to some extent, but there is an inherent asymmetry to this situation. The lower laff toons typically would not have many concerns about going with toons that have at least about the same amount of laff as themselves, and would likely not object at all to most players that are higher. On the other hand, it can be observed quite frequently that many high laffers aren't thrilled about going with low laffers, to say the least, or might not want to take more than 1 or 2. In other words, the presence of the high laffers is usually not imposing on a low laffer - in fact, in many cases the low laffers depend on it - but the other way around is different.

The Cold Callers Guild provides a place where we can work our 'fun' toons without all the headaches of the elevator shuffle, however their run times are not always convenient. I applaud what they do and will run with them when I can, but should I be limited to ONLY that option?

The CCG does great work, no question about it. And I'm not the one to say low laffers ought to limit themselves to only CCG runs. That's everyone's own responsibility. It comes down to whether the other people on the elevator object to your presence, and if you care about that at all.

[doc quackenheimer]

Originally Posted by Panzerfaust

The lower laff toons typically would not have many concerns about going with toons that have at least about the same amount of laff as themselves, and would likely not object at all to most players that are higher.

I think if you really watch the cold callers won't even go on the elevators with a group of all cold callers. thats why sometimes there are groups of like 10 cold callers hanging around. The funniest thing was when I was on the elevator and there was one cold caller. at the last second he jumped off, resetting the clock. He was so sure everyone was going to bail on him he jumped off. Everyone else was shouting "stop that" at him. He got back on and off we went.

[Solid Squirrlee 2]

I'm a CCG member I play one of two toons in the runs Solid Squirrlee (106 Maxed NO Trap Hollywood 22) or Mister Loopy Dandydoodle (98 Maxed on all except level 6 Trap and Tune Up NO Drop Name Dropper 4) and rarely have any trouble beating the VP with low Laffers along. Actually I go sad with high Laffer on non CCG runs more often than with the low Laffers on CCG raids! here is the group I went with Tuesday night at 10:00 PM Pacific time.

47 laff telemarketer level 6
83 laff glad hander level 7
57 laff cold caller level 1
104 laff mover & shaker level 9
63 laff mingler level 8
106 laff hollywood level 23
102 laff hollywood level 9
98 laff name dropper level 4 (My Toon)

We ALL danced at the end for Madam Chuckle!!!!

We had one close call when the 63 laffer put up a MAXED fog horn alone by mistake in the skelecog round! All she said was sorry for the whole round while the cogs attacked. Other than that it was a Breeze!!!!

I will take any low laffer that wants to go! I just ask that they listen to the higher toons requests when asked to Pass or asked to "Follow Me" I know how many hit points each level cog has and what gags to use to defeat them lured or not. If you check the strategies thread in the CCG fourm you will find a gag damage table for lured cogs that I made to help new players know what to use in CCG raids. Yes in the CCG we depend alot on lure and have a GREAT success rate over 80% win ratio. I have had great success teaching other toons the CCG lure tatic on NON CCG raids with lower toons with us. The biggest problem is high laffers trying to kill the lower toons on purpose just to prove a point and I do all I can to save the little guys. If you don't want to have lower toons with you don't take them just to kill them that is wrong and mean and will most often kill the whole group on your side if not the entire group.

[WizardHawk]

Originally Posted by Panzerfaust

It is to some extent, but there is an inherent asymmetry to this situation. The lower laff toons typically would not have many concerns about going with toons that have at least about the same amount of laff as themselves, and would likely not object at all to most players that are higher. On the other hand, it can be observed quite frequently that many high laffers aren't thrilled about going with low laffers, to say the least, or might not want to take more than 1 or 2. In other words, the presence of the high laffers is usually not imposing on a low laffer - in fact, in many cases the low laffers depend on it - but the other way around is different.

Most of these high laff toons that you speak of are either teen players, or fairly new to being a high toon. That is not to say that all high toons who will not go with low toons fall into this, but it does seem to cover the majority of them. Why is that? Because after you have maxed all of your gags, finished all of your tasks, and got as far as you can stand in the boring old factory run X10+ VP cycle, you have very few things left in this game to challenge you. You can either make a new toon, or take your maxed toon and do things that are more risky and challenging. There are a great many of us who have played for a long time who will take pretty much ANY toon in a VP run and find it a lot more fun to do so.

As to the 'asymmetry', we are talking about apples and oranges here.

Some basic facts:
Disney has set it up to where every player has access to the VP area.
Disney has put tasks in for lower toons to go to the VP.
Disney has put tasks in for the higher toons to take toons under 50 into the VP.
Disney forces toons to go into the factory at around 40 or so. You may not progress in the game without completing one factory.
Disney changed the experience multiplier to x2 for both the factory and VP.
The factory is a much easier place to go to find keys from minglers and cones from hollywoods.

It is clear that lower toons are driven and given many insentives to go fight in this zone. The story behind SHQ and how the toons came to figure out how to make a cog suit to go into the VP is given during a toon's stay in DG now. What we can expect is new, and older players on newer toons, to go to both areas for a number of reasons. They have a right to do it. They are forced to try it, and offered much quicker and easier tasks for taking it. How can we expect them to not go there and try to get on these runs?

On the other hand we have the select group of players who are above 90 and feel that disney made a mistake in letting these lower toons into this area. They have a right to just go find their own groups and play without the added difficulty and no one suggests otherwise. But as the experienced player with a lot more resources and knowledge then their newer counterparts, they should go out of their way to play their style in a way that does not put down or attack the junior players. They know better and should act accordingly.

The tired old argument is that the little guys should go off and find other groups and leave the larger player alone. Those who use it suggest that lower toons are mostly to blame for the elevator shuffle. In my experience, either a large toon, or a small toon can both hold a lobby hostage. In a perfect world when a lower toons was not wanted by a majority of the people in the lobby, that lower toon would either wait for more players or go to another server. Likewise, if there are only one or two larger toons jumping off, blocking the timer, calling names.... to a lower toon, they should have the common sence to stop holding up the game and go find a like minded group. Those lower toons are a part of the game and are not going away any time soon. Get used to it.

[Toon Dad]

Originally Posted by Solid Squirrlee

47 laff telemarketer level 6
83 laff glad hander level 7
57 laff cold caller level 1
104 laff mover & shaker level 9
63 laff mingler level 8 (That's me - LOL)
106 laff hollywood level 23
102 laff hollywood level 9
98 laff name dropper level 4 (My Toon)

We had one close call when the 63 laffer put up a MAXED fog horn (ouch) alone by mistake in the skelecog round! All she said was sorry for the whole round while the cogs attacked. Other than that it was a Breeze!!!!

I will take any low laffer that wants to go! I just ask that they listen to the higher toons requests when asked to Pass or asked to "Follow Me" I know how many hit points each level cog has and what gags to use to defeat them lured or not. If you check the strategies thread in the CCG fourm you will find a gag damage table for lured cogs that I made to help new players know what to use in CCG raids. Yes in the CCG we depend alot on lure and have a GREAT success rate over 80% win ratio. I have had great success teaching other toons the CCG lure tatic on NON CCG raids with lower toons with us. The biggest problem is high laffers trying to kill the lower toons on purpose just to prove a point and I do all I can to save the little guys. If you don't want to have lower toons with you don't take them just to kill them that is wrong and mean and will most often kill the whole group on your side if not the entire group.

And, am I ever glad you do. In fact, without toons like you there is little chance I could ever have gotten my little 63 laff-challenged mouse to the lofty height of a Mingler .

[Sally Kat]

Originally Posted by Toon Dad

And, am I ever glad you do. In fact, without toons like you there is little chance I could ever have gotten my little 63 laff-challenged mouse to the lofty height of a Mingler .

Your gags must be pretty awesome too after all those vp runs.
I always click on the toons gag stats, the other day we were playing with a 23 laffer in the factory who had a thundercloud.

[Garlic]

I love the e-champions for the low laffers' rights in this thread. It's all the responsibility of high laff toons to adjust their playing style and gag selection to keep the little ones alive, because they are also paying customers..and if you don't, why, you must be one of them "elitist" players!
The simple fact remains that a low laffer going along into a high-risk area (factory, VP) imposes restrictions on other people's freedom to play how they see fit. This can be fun, certainly, but to be helped along in this manner is a privilige and not a right you can expect every stranger you meet in TT to respect.
I didn't go into these areas before I could reasonably expect to last a round of 4 cogs attacking the party without me hammering the "I need a toon-up" button; if you do go there and you do go sad it's a shame, and moreso if you put the high-laffer at risk by being there while not ready. Nothing but common sense, really...

[doc quackenheimer]

Originally Posted by Garlic

I love the e-champions for the low laffers' rights in this thread. It's all the responsibility of high laff toons to adjust their playing style and gag selection to keep the little ones alive, because they are also paying customers..and if you don't, why, you must be one of them "elitist" players!
The simple fact remains that a low laffer going along into a high-risk area (factory, VP) imposes restrictions on other people's freedom to play how they see fit. This can be fun, certainly, but to be helped along in this manner is a privilige and not a right you can expect every stranger you meet in TT to respect.
I didn't go into these areas before I could reasonably expect to last a round of 4 cogs attacking the party without me hammering the "I need a toon-up" button; if you do go there and you do go sad it's a shame, and moreso if you put the high-laffer at risk by being there while not ready. Nothing but common sense, really...

I really think your on the wrong thread. There's other threads for that discussion. This thread was about a high gag mid laffer and I guaranty you they can pull there own weight. Most of the problems I've had with my mid laffer is poor strategy by high laffers. There's just much less margin for error and the mistakes high laffers can get away with send me back to the playground.

[Garlic]

I'm going to have to disagree. It's pretty much a given mistakes are going to happen between random groups of toons. Since training gags takes much, much longer than completing a few laff tasks it's not unreasonable to expect people (even if they are tricked out on the gag front) to show up with enough laff to be able to survive such mistakes without compromising their fellow toons. It's nice to get all principled about this issue, the fact remains it's essentially a matter of courtesy to have a well-rounded toon, and not to shift what is your responsibility on someone else.

[doc quackenheimer]

Originally Posted by Garlic

I'm going to have to disagree. It's pretty much a given mistakes are going to happen between random groups of toons. Since training gags takes much, much longer than completing a few laff tasks it's not unreasonable to expect people (even if they are tricked out on the gag front) to show up with enough laff to be able to survive such mistakes without compromising their fellow toons. It's nice to get all principled about this issue, the fact remains it's essentially a matter of courtesy to have a well-rounded toon, and not to shift what is your responsibility on someone else.

and i'm going to have to disagree with you. I have just as much right to be there as the 90's toon that elephant trunked four lured skelecogs, or the Hollywood who told me to use lure on four skelecogs and used a low level trap sos yesterday causing my toon to go sad.

[Garlic]

And what have we learned from this anecdote? If you had had more laff, they would still have been sucky players, but you would have lived instead of crying about it here *shrug*.

[doc quackenheimer]

Originally Posted by Garlic

And what have we learned from this anecdote? If you had had more laff, they would still have been sucky players, but you would have lived instead of crying about it here *shrug*.

Why is a 100 laff with average gags an more valuable than a maxed mid laff. The only time my larger toon went sad in around the last 20 tries was when I was with a group of 90's who didn't have good enough tune up in the skelecog battle. Why do they have any more right to be there. My mid laff did the entire skelecog battle with one other toon saturday after the rest went sad. I just don't see your point. There's a mix and excluding one group thats just as qualified as 70% of the other participants is wrong. As for crying, its not crying I cant back my case without using examples and facts. If I cared that much about a couple of parts I'd stick to my larger toon and only go with high suits like you do. The only skill you know people like that have is they know how to jump. Fit your profile?