Sad and frustrated

[WizardHawk]

Originally Posted by Yellow Horse

Oh my...

Be very careful expressing common sense opinions like that around here. There are many people who love to think of themselves as inclusive, can't-we-all-get-along types who are wonderfully tolerant....of their own views. But go too far astray by wondering aloud if the VP is the best place for a 50 laffer and the tolerance goes out the window.

Your post was a breath of fresh air...just be ready for the hissy fits from the self annointed PC police with their shorts in a wad.

Once again you make remarkably pointless attacks to anyone that does not feel your way and then call those with a different view names. So far you have called me a 'snob', (I loved this one, very, very funny!) part of the 'Thought Police', and now we can spin it a bit and just say I am 'The self annointed PC police'. All of which you offer without one supporting fact or statement. You seem extreamly closed minded and yet chide others for their views and 'suggest' that you are the only one with an open mind. You can continue to throw names around and use your sarcastic and attacking style, or perhaps some day you can actually join a conversation and possbily an open debate. Just be warned that in a debate those with a different point of view are actually allowed to voice it.

Which makes more sence to you:
Those players who have been around long enough to know about the game from most any angle and should understand by now the very nature of the newer players should find ways of playing their game in a way that does not promote the attacking, name calling, or other types of abuse of newer players. They should understand that the newer player simply does not know, and has no possible way to know, why so many attack them for playing in an area that the game makers seem to want them to be in. Isn't it reasonable to suggest then that these more experienced players could simply find groups and head to dead servers to get their runs in?

Or

Expect the new player to take the 'hint' and just give up on seeing an area of the game open to them after they suffer enough abuse at the hands of some of the higher players. It has been suggested that these lower toons could easily jump servers themselves. They are the ones who simply insist on jumping onto an elevator without welcome and without asking if they can go. They use bad strategy, come without full gags, don't follow 'orders' from the larger toons, and can be bossy. In other words, they are still new to the game, have not figured it all out yet like their higher LP neighbors and deserve to be treated by the same standards that we would use to evaluate those players who have already completed their first toon. Is it fair to expect (mostly little children) who have not mastered strategy, communications, and other areas of the game, to be the ones to organize and move themselves out of the way of the long time players or simply just deal with the attacks they receive and decide to give up until the other players allow them to go?

This is the basic argument posed. We have been around long enough to know how to organize groups for the VP and simply take those groups to a quiet loading area. The new player who has taken a task for beating the VP or is just simply curious about it is told they should just go find somewhere else to be. Either they need to not go until the majority of the older players say they can go, or server hop until they find some of the more open minded players to help them. This isn't a hard question to answer by anyone with a logical mind.

Feel free to play only with larger toons if you wish (this is the part that YH keeps leaving out when he says I'm telling others how to play), but you cannot blame the lower toons for being there and you simply cannot expect for them to be the ones to make the changes to make the elevator shuffle go away. It is very illogical to suggest that.

Now YH, you failed to respond to my last 2 posts to you where I asked for you to show me where I fall into your insults and now add more to it. I once again pose the challenge that you either put up, or shut up. Debate the topic and stop attacking others on a personal level. You are only making yourself look like an idiot.

[Rattlebones]

Your LVL 50 is welcome to join CCG runs anytime he wishes. Just please abide by our rules. You'll find that even w/ a group of mid laffers you'll find people willing to work together.

[rkhooda]

Originally Posted by WizardHawk

...

Now YH, you failed to respond to my last 2 posts to you where I asked for you to show me where I fall into your insults and now add more to it. I once again pose the challenge that you either put up, or shut up. Debate the topic and stop attacking others on a personal level. You are only making yourself look like an idiot.

Ouch Wizard Hawk. I read his posts, and it didnt seem to be attacking you personaly. He just made some general comments. But you did use his name specifically, and you did almost call him an idiot.

Take it easy

[WizardHawk]

Originally Posted by rkhooda

Ouch Wizard Hawk. I read his posts, and it didnt seem to be attacking you personaly. He just made some general comments. But you did use his name specifically, and you did almost call him an idiot.

Take it easy

You are correct, he did not name me in THIS thread. His comments are spill-overs from his (now closed) thread. My comments are directed toward a pattern by this player, not just his post here. I can see where it would seem like I am taking his words out of context. I assure you, he very much has a thing against me which is fine. I've been attacked by people I respect far more and am still standing

[King Zowie Elec]

Oh I get it....

How many toons does it take to change a lightbulb?

Three... one to change the bulb and two to kick the ladder out from underneath him....

Sorry I couldn't resist... old joke from a medical school...

Just keep changing the lightbulbs, there's nothing wrong with your behavior...

Have fun in toontown, ...da King

[Sally Kat]

Originally Posted by WizardHawk

You are correct, he did not name me in THIS thread. His comments are spill-overs from his (now closed) thread. My comments are directed toward a pattern by this player, not just his post here. I can see where it would seem like I am taking his words out of context. I assure you, he very much has a thing against me which is fine. I've been attacked by people I respect far more and am still standing

Yep, I too have been reading these threads and it's pretty obvious where the comments are directed.
I've stayed out of these threads till now because I don't want to be flamed if I disagree.
The OP in that closed thread was enough to make me go Oooooo.

[Mouse]

Originally Posted by Panzerfaust

While I always do my best to keep any toon alive once he's up there with me I do sorta wonder why low laff toons feel the need to be at the vp in the first place. I mean, there are plenty of things for them to do at that level that would actually benefit them. And they do present somewhat of a risk for the other members of the vp-party. Personally I didn't bother to try the vp until I had 80+ laff. I can understand others who want to do it a bit earlier, but why not at least get Lil Oldman done first?

Yeah I know there's a task to take a 50 to the vp. I just don't see why people would want to be that 50.

And I can't think of anything good to say about those 50s that keep forcing themselves on parties that are trying to gather at the elevator. If people keep jumping off and/or saying 'I think this is too risky for you', take the hint. Please. People say it because they're concerned about themselves, not you. Who can blame them? You may be the best low laff toon in the world, but how can they know? Why should they risk having to do an additional X factory runs on that? Just don't be surprised if people are upset that you're there if you manage to sneak in anyway after an exhausting episode of elevator shuffling.

I too have a 50 Laff toon with all level 6 gags except drop and trap and I am an experienced player with a couple 100+laff toons too. I made this toon specifically to do VP at a low laff because it is more of a challenge and so much more fun then with my 100 laff toons and 7 other 100 laffers with me (boring...samo ol same ol) anyway you mentioned why not wait till you finish little ol man first, well that would still only bring you to a tad bit more laff cause I have done little ol man with this toon and I went as far as 15 gag tracks, I only have one more left to get my final gag but it wont let me without raising my laff so I am not going to get it, I want to stay 50 to be of help to any toons who have the help a new toon 50 and below with factory or vp.

Anyway my point is I understand that everyone does not look at gags, but once in the VP and you see the mid laffers pull out their juggling balls and fog horns and goggles then they should be treated like anyone else in this game, cause a lot of 90+laffers do not have these gags, so it is not always about laff. I am rambling on and on so I will stop now. lol

[Panzerfaust]

Originally Posted by WizardHawk

I don't mean to make assumptions about your skill/experience, but when you have played as long as I have and are just bored as heck, having a challenge like taking a smaller toon into the VP is about all you have left to try and make it even remotely interesting. Sam is at 53 and will not being seeing LOM1 until he is a holly 12. I pay my TT bill and have the right to play this way. You do not have to go with me, but you sure don't have the right to say I don't belong there.

I don't say that - I said I don't see why people would want to be that low level toon.

I agree that the challenge of helping a low laff toon get through things is fun. Heck, I do that stuff all the time. Personally I don't consider it as much fun to be the one that needs the help, however, but to each his own.

Still, it all comes down on how you look at it, doesn't it? People may be upset at me because they think I assume all midlevel laffers are worthless, when in fact some of them are among the most experienced and jaded players around who are simply looking for something different to do. But one could argue that precisely because they are so experienced, they should be particularly considerate of the needs (and flaws) of all other players. There are plenty of high laff first timers who aren't really all that strong, who need support from a good vp-party, who are just looking to advance their first toon quickly, and who at this moment aren't looking for the extra challenge of taking some low laffer with them. When you do a low laff toon run for kicks, aren't you imposing your experiment on them?

I will be taking my 53 to the VP and there isn't a darned thing you, nor anyone else in here, can do about it.

Have a nice day.

Thanks, same to you.

[rkhooda]

Originally Posted by WizardHawk

You are correct, he did not name me in THIS thread. His comments are spill-overs from his (now closed) thread.

Oops, I guess I stepped in the middle of something here. LoL

Sorry..

Carry on.

[Mouse]

[quote=Panzerfaust]
Still, it all comes down on how you look at it, doesn't it? People may be upset at me because they think I assume all midlevel laffers are worthless, when in fact some of them are among the most experienced and jaded players around who are simply looking for something different to do. But one could argue that precisely because they are so experienced, they should be particularly considerate of the needs (and flaws) of all other players. There are plenty of high laff first timers who aren't really all that strong, who need support from a good vp-party, who are just looking to advance their first toon quickly, and who at this moment aren't looking for the extra challenge of taking some low laffer with them. When you do a low laff toon run for kicks, aren't you imposing your experiment on them?


I do understand where you are comming from there, I strictly go with the CCG when I take my 50 laffer in the VP just so I know that the ones who are going with me, want to go in with lower laffers, it does go both ways, everyone who wants to do VP has the right to do it regardless of their LP this isnt a perfect world, but everyone should be considerate to others in the same way, but that will never happen lol

Its just a game! Have fun!

[WizardHawk]

Originally Posted by Panzerfaust

When you do a low laff toon run for kicks, aren't you imposing your experiment on them?

That argument works both ways. Disney keeps TT as an open realm and has no areas that are 'off limits' to toons of various levels. We have all seen 15's and 16's attempting to fight on lullaby lane haven't we? Sure, for those higher toons that will only go with other higher toons, those of us who have smaller toons do pose a problem. Since this is an open game and we have a right to play it our way too, their self imposed requirements for other toons poses a problem for us. This situation works both ways and is exactly what I've been saying. This isn't the fault of just one side, its the responsiblity of both parties.

The Cold Callers Guild provides a place where we can work our 'fun' toons without all the headaches of the elevator shuffle, however their run times are not always convenient. I applaud what they do and will run with them when I can, but should I be limited to ONLY that option?

Why does the rights of the larger toons who only want to play with other larger toons override our rights to be able to take toons below their standard into this area? As long as Disney does not impose restrictions on access, we should have every bit as much right to play there as everyone else.

[WizardHawk]

Originally Posted by rkhooda

Oops, I guess I stepped in the middle of something here. LoL

Sorry..

Carry on.

'No Problem' RK. It's all good

[Zippy]

My six year old took his 50 laff toon to VP the other day. We were a group that knew he was 50 and since we often go in with 4 or 5 had no problem with a lvl 50 coming along.

He didnt make it in the Pie throw because he got so excited he forgot to jump. He is looking forward to going again. It was fun and very few would think it a problem.

The only problem was that he went sad and cried because he didnt make it. Does that mean he shouldnt have gone? Ha, most of the people I know went sad thier first three times in VP. That didnt slow any of us down.

[WizardHawk]

Originally Posted by Zippy

My six year old took his 50 laff toon to VP the other day. We were a group that knew he was 50 and since we often go in with 4 or 5 had no problem with a lvl 50 coming along.

He didnt make it in the Pie throw because he got so excited he forgot to jump. He is looking forward to going again. It was fun and very few would think it a problem.

The only problem was that he went sad and cried because he didnt make it. Does that mean he shouldnt have gone? Ha, most of the people I know went sad thier first three times in VP. That didnt slow any of us down.

That's great zippy. Your and your son had fun and that is what TT is supposed to be all about. You had an ideal situation though, he went only with you and an established group. If he were to try alone chances are pretty good he would be attacked. If he did manage to make it into an elevator there is a fair chance that someone will try and make him sad on the run. This is the real problem in TT. Of course your son isn't perfect and doesn't know as much about strategy as the top players, but he doesn't deserve to be attacked for it.

When my super 53 makes hollywood 12, I really want to see someone say 'I think this is too risky for you'. I am so sick of the elitist high toons in this game.

DISCLAIMER ~ not all high toons who choose to go without lower toons are elitist. This term mostly applies to players who call names, attempt to strand toons on an elevator alone, block the elevator timer with their suits/heads, and/or attempt to make toons go sad. If you do not do any of these things, you are not the one that ANY of my comments EVER have been directed at.

[doc quackenheimer]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Blabber

I took my 50 laff toon (maxed throw, squirt and sound, and goggles and juggling balls) into VP last night for the second time. My 50 Toon is a level 2 Cold Caller. My friends (2 level 31 Hollywoods) ended up on the other side both rounds. All right, I was the lowest laff toon present, but had better gags than all the "team mates" I played with.
What made me sad and frustrated was one toon who withheld toonup from my toon, pretended to have run out of toonup, kept saying "I need a toonup", used elephant on cogs I'd lured with hypnogoggles and big magnet, wasted a round exchanging toon up with another toon when I was using juggling balls to toon both up. We had one toon either not playing or disconnected during the skelecog round. You guessed it, I went sad first half way through the skellecog round. Then the two remaining "team mates" went sad them selves next cog attack round.
What frustrates the heck out of me, is that we could all have got through to the pie throwing easily. If it weren't for a mean and moronic yellow cat. Sure, it's just a game. Lost three suit pieces, so what, right? Well, it's a lot more fun to win and beat the cogs and VP.

This may just be a one time incident. If you see this happening repeatedly you may have to change your strategy and pull out at least one big gag at the beginning of the round. Most people see a 50lp and expect pies and seltzer bottles. I’ve have not had a problem with meanness towards my 60’s laffer in about 15 VP fights. It’s not always easy to get on the elevator though. I always try to conserve my gags and use the lowest possible that’s effective. They probably all think I stink before the skelecog round. at 63lp I've needed very few "extra" tune ups, probably alot less than you would think.

As for contribution, I'll bet the long term players making these toons can contribute as much as the average 80's -100LP player. Having seen it from both sides, a high gag low laff is more valuable than a 90's laff average gag toon.