Some factory advice for noobs

[UMT]

Some very good advice Sir Dudley. Thanks for the wonderful post.

[Tunearu]

Originally Posted by Yellow Horse

1. Show up at the elevator fully healthy.
2. Show up at the elevator fully gagged.
3. Announce the toontask you are working on so that the high laffers understand you won't necessarily be the 40 laffer causing grief at the VP elevator tomorrow.
4. Once in the factory...SHUT UP. The last thing 3 Mr. Hollywoods need is advice from a 50 laffer on what gags to use.
5. Don't bother asking for the group to go the lava room or paint mixer. We high laffers don't need the TU feather or jelly beans. If you want to go shopping then come into the factory with a group of other noobs.
6. Don't whine if we high laffers elephant call and foghorn our way through the factory. A single round of fighting per group of cogs makes for a much faster run. After hundreds of factory runs, please forgive us high laffers if we don't care that you are trying to upgrade your seltzer bottle. That's what buildings are for.
7. Don't try to boss the group around. Once on the east silo I was running towards the door and a 50 something whispered to me to step on the switch. Duh. I was happy to see that tune go sad in the foreman battle.
8. If you notice that a high laffer is working a gag, help. Your seltzer bottle is of no use in the factory, but if I'm working my drop gags, you're an instant friend if you stun a cog for me.
9. Play smart.
10. Join the battle. If you try to freeload by standing off to the side and then join the group at the end I guarantee the others will find a way to make you go sad.
11. If you are worried about being left high and dry in the foreman battle, do NOT be the first to enter the room. Also...do NOT be the only toon to use an offensive gag or you will be the target of the cog's attacks.
12. Do NOT be the one stepping on the switch after the 2nd silo battle. I was in the factory a few weeks ago with a freeloader 30 laffer who didn't join in any battles. He stood by the east silo door during the second silo fight to be the one to step on the switch. As soon as he went in I whispered to the others to hurry. We immediately entered the center silo and foghorned the group before the leech could get there. He entered to see the three of us dancing. Very satisfying.
13. You're welcome to join us and most of us are happy to help, but remember that any of the 100+ laffers could probably solo the factory. You need us more than we need you. Act accordingly if you want to be dancing at the foreman's funeral.

Hmm, some of those are ok...but after reading the entire thread I have to agree with UMT and Wiz.

[Justus II]

I certainly don't want to jump into the debate of who should be in the factory, or how to treat other toons. I will say I'm very greatful to those high-laff toons who have taken the time and helped to guide me through the factory, both SFs and random runs. I just wanted to comment on what I think is good advice for noobs like me, who are still learning factory and need the help. A lot of good points have been made, and I hope they don't get lost in the shuffle.

It's always nicer to go through with friends, obviously, and not everyone is going to be as helpful as you might like. But if you are going to join a 'random' group, or someone elses' smaller group, then I do agree you need to go with the flow. After all, they were planning on going in anyway, they probably weren't waiting around for you! It doesn't mean you don't belong, but it DOES mean they deserve respect and appreciation for letting you join in.

Originally Posted by Sir Dudley

Here is my advice (I heavily edited YH's originals)

1. Please show up at the elevator with decent health.

2. Please show up at the elevator fully gagged. (unless you were caught on the way in and had to use a few)

3. If the high laffers say that this is too risky for you: Announce the toontask you are working on so that the high laffers know that you need to be there.

I totally agree with these, I saw an elevator today with a 17lp, and a 2 of 37lp hop on. Suprisingly, no one else decided to join them, I can only guess it was a child, and I felt bad for them, but ESPECIALLY for lower laff, I think the least you can do is show up fully prepared. I've been caught by a cog on the way in, and if I'm only down a few points, OK, but if I lose like 10 or more, I'll hop to a playground first and heal. I don't think it makes a good first impression to be below green on the laff meter.

If I have a factory task, I certainly like to say so, so at least they know why I'm there. Unfortunately, there's no SpeedChat for "Need Parts". Sometimes I'll just say Let's Kill Cogs, but usually I use the old reliable "Can you help me?" It doesn't always get a response, but I figure it's the most polite thing I can do. I also try to pay attention to the surroundings. If a group of 4 toons is headed for the elevator, they probably came as a group, don't jump in ahead of them. I wait until I either get a response from someone, or see a group of 2 or 3 high-laff toons, and no one else jumping on.

4. Please don't tell the higher laff toons what to choose; we already know. Feel free to choose any gag that you think is appropriate yourself. (please don't use sound on lured cogs)

5. If you want to go to the lava or paint room: go, but we probably won't wait.

6. Please don't whine if we high laffers elephant call and foghorn our way through the factory. If we do you can use TU or lure or sound to get experience.

7. Please don't try to tell us what to do and where to go- we already know.

I agree with all these points again. I look at it like a carpool, I'm not gonna tell them how to drive, or ask to run to the grocery store while we're on the way to work! I will usually try to pick my gag first, (usually a standard pie) so they know what I'm doing, and can tell me "no" if they need to. I don't have sound, so that's not a problem. If THEY are using sound, that's not a problem either! I will try to target the highest level cog, figuring I can finish off a survivor, or toon them up. (Like paying gas money, I guess!). If I do notice someone working a certain gag, I'll do my best to help (squirt for their drop, even got to lure for someone working trap today). I agree, factory is not the place for me to work my gag points, but if they do, hey, it was their run. Now if they DO ask me "You should choose Trap" or whatever, great, it's a bonus.

One comment to the high laff toons, though, is "Follow Me" can be a very effective phrase!! If one toon tells me that, I will do my best to match his gags, add my pie to the cake for more bonus, etc. If their gag selection is confusing me, I'll even ask "which way".

Same is true for the directions. I generally expect a quick run, and wouldn't ask to go anywhere else, but I've been confused a couple times when THEY were going somewhere else. Again, it's their run, they were going before I jumped on the elevator, so however they want to do it is fine. I've learned to slow down a bit and make sure I'm following the leader, and I'm not afraid to say "which way?" Don't run ahead, and jump over the first goon on the way to the warehouse, if they want to go through the long way!

9. Play smart.

10. Please join the battle. If you try to freeload by standing off to the side and then join the group at the end I guarantee the others will find a way to make you go sad. (If you can't run through the goonies easily I don't care if you wait for us to squish them)

11. If you are worried about being left high and dry in the foreman battle, do NOT be the first to enter the room. Also...do NOT be the only toon to use an offensive gag or you will be the target of the cog's attacks.

Again, I totally agree here. If I wasn't willing and ready to fight, I shouldn't be there! I do my best, and try to use SpeedChat to show I'm following what they are doing, and give them the "nice shot" type comments as well.

As for #11, pick the leader, and follow him/her. Whether it's at the top of the silo, or below. I was in a group once, where we finished warehouse, went out to the West Silo elevator, and then they jumped off. I thought something was wrong, so I waited a few seconds, but heard one of them say "Let's split up". Not a good feeling! Luckily I was at the top of the silo, but didn't enage any cogs yet. I tried whispering to each as they talked, with a "Which Way", and one of them must have felt sympathy, and told me East Silo. I went back down the elevator and made it to them while they were still fighting that lineup. After that I was VERY cautious, followed the group, but still fought each of the rounds, and made it through the foreman fight. I don't know if they changed their plans, or if it was my mistake (giving benefit of the doubt), but just a warning. Follow the leader!

OK, this was a longer reply than I intended, but I hope some others can learn from these points. I've had mostly good luck with random runs, only a couple problems, and I don't like to see either high or lower laff toons getting a bad name because some don't use "Good Teamwork".

[Sir Dudley]

I was kinda worried that my advice was still too harsh and that I would get the same kind of response that YH did. I guess by heavily changing the wording and changing the basic advice some that I made it more friendly and better as advice.

[WizardHawk]

Originally Posted by FTiodor

When you say that everyone has the right to play.... and then you criticize them for playing their playing style, that is not fair. I would like you to say, I do not agree and/or you are wrong to...

You would say that I am free to help noobs and take my time, even though it is not the way you prefer to play. Greifers are free to play their way, you are free to play yours, I am free to play mine. I have to say those things or I wind up with several people saying I am trying to tell them how to play or that they cannot do things their way. All I have done here is offer my opinions.

The way that forums work is someone puts up a new thread with ideas, opinions, and/or new items. Other people then read the thread and some offer additions to it, their agreement with the author, or an opposing view. Of course on this thread I would fall under the latter category lol. YH is free to play under his ‘suggestions’ and even go farther. It is not my place to say what others are ‘allowed’ to do, that is up to the folks who make the game. What I have done is offer what I think of some of the ideas up here. I think it is clear that I ‘do not agree’ with the author of this thread. The problem with clearly saying it is I agree with major parts of what he said, just not the way he said it. ‘It’s not what you say, it’s how you say it’ is a famous quote that applies here.

Originally Posted by FTiodor

I just don't like the statements that always seem to tell high laffers to move on. ( yes I am using the word always ) When you make those statements it gives the impression the the crowded districts belong to the noobs and they don't, they belong to both.

The busy servers do not belong to the lower toons, however there is no place they belong more then on those servers. I have had to go to them to find help and there are many ways to do it that avoid much of the problems. You can keep a spot or two open and put someone on your list just so you can go to a peaceful location. You can wait out the cluster at the elevator and look for a time when you can rush into the elevator with whatever toons you have decided match your criteria. You don’t have to take any of the lower toons with you, but they are not going to leave those servers and there will always be those that attempt to push their way on no matter what you say. There is no easy solution to this. My answer was posed directly to his #6 statement. He gave the impression he had a group that could handle itself without the need of the lower toons. Under this situation it just makes more sense to jump servers and not deal with the hassles.

Originally Posted by FTiodor

It would not be logical to expect them to go to a dead server, but it would be logical to expect that they realize that if they want the keys to minglers and to defeat cog factories, they don't bite the hand that feeds them.

Agreed. I have never suggested that large toons ‘owe’ the lower toons anything. I am nice enough to take whoever is around on my parts runs and I sure don’t like it when the lower toons I take are rude, bossy, or just plain stupid. I just believe that those toons are not indicative of ALL lower toons and so everyone should be treated with respect until they themselves do something to warrant other treatment.

Treat all other players with respect. If you find a bad player, treat them according to your beliefs. The problem is, many (not you) use the excuses of poor behavior from some of the little guys as a reason why they can mistreat all lower toons. These are the players I am fighting against up here.

Originally Posted by FTiodor

The plain fact is, speaking for myself, I don't want to take that extra time what ever it is. That is not a strike on low laffers because I have refused to go with 100+ laffers that did not have sound. I want to get my 5500 merits as fast as possible, and even if a high laffers slows me down either by luring, or not having sound, I will politely make sure they are tooned up and TP out. Nothing personal about it.

You are free to play anyway you want to…. (no I’m not saying that with a straight face lol)

Originally Posted by FTiodor

Personally, I don't think that the VP of Factory is the place to work gags at all regardless of your laff level!

It was the hypocrisy of ‘suggesting’ that lower toons would find good favor by helping larger toons work their gags, but are not welcome to work theirs that I was talking about. I have had high level friends that work gags there, and low level friends who have as well. This has mostly been limited to runs with friends so it does not affect strangers.

If the factory is no place to work gags, then why did Disney make it X2 in there and in the VP’s office? They gave the extra gag credit so why is it wrong for players to want to take advantage of that? We have all dealt with it in buildings too. You want to sound your way out of a middle floor but the guy on the end just wants to keep using his darned trap over and over making each round go very slow. It isn't fun, but it is a part of the game.

When working gags in the factory, Sam has tried to arrange it so that he is with all friends. If that wasn’t possible, then we found other lower toons to fill in the gap so that busy larger toons would not be slowed down. I do not believe that lower toons have the right to force their gag work on other toons, but they do have the right to try and work them there since the experience points are so high. Sam is close to getting his elephant and will work the factory hard to help push his sound up. The only reason no one in here would argue against that is they want to use sound anyway.

Originally Posted by FTiodor

Our disagreement stems from your wording...I think everyone has the right to play as they wish. To me that means that if you agree that they have the right to... then don't jump on them for doing what you say they have a right to do.

As stated, if I do that, someone accuses me of trying to tell them how to play. I have used those exact phrases in the past and found myself in that position. What I am saying is, you do have the right to ignore anything I say and do as you wish, but I do not agree with your ideas, opinions, and/or actions.

I am amazed we keep winding up in these discussions. We actually agree with the basic core of the others main message.

My main message:
Lower toons have the right to be in the factory and VP. This message is normally given to those larger toons who say lower toons should not be there, kill/attack/grief lower toons, and/or use name calling, blocking the elevator timer with their suits/heads, or jump off the elevator at the last moment. You are not a member of this group frank.

Where we differ on my opinions is around the fact that both larger and smaller toons may be responsible for problems at the elevator, but larger toons could solve it by just leaving. I realize you do not agree with that position.

Your main message:
Larger toons have the right to choose who to play with, and who not to play with at any time and should not be subject to being called cowards or have others assume it is because they could not survive if they did take some lower toons. They can do it just because they enjoy the company of larger toons and may be tired of the headaches often associated with playing with lower toons.

I do not disagree with any of your position on this at all. In fact, when I defended that exact position on another thread, I was attacked by someone for suggesting they could give their message without calling people cowards. I have actually been on your side!

As to YH, I answered his latest slam on me in the post I made to fancy frank before he even posted it. No need to waste my time on it any longer. I do not know YH and have very limited snippits of posts to form any judgement on so I cannot say that he IS an elitist toon, but his tone sure did have the feel of an elitist. I do find it funny that he thinks I am a snob when I am the one willing to help others! I guess he feels that 'snob' is the same as 'helper'.

[FTiodor]

[quote=WizardHawk]

If the factory is no place to work gags, then why did Disney make it X2 in there and in the VP’s office?

I can't dispute anything you wrote in that last thread, and i must admilt that I enjoy debating with you. Good Job, well done on the last thread. Really! The only thing I want to clarify is the above statement, in regards to what I mean when I say working gags ". To me that term means that you are trying to avoid any gags that are maxed, and are trying to use one or several unmaxed gags. I see nothing wrong with this in the factory, except when the situation calls for a specific gag like toonup, or if the group is using one specific gag.

Example, a toon is working drop, but what is best for the team is toonup at the present time. He chooses drop instead to maximize his total points instead of doing the right thing. Often these toons will use that gag every time without regard for others. These toons should feel free to work their gags as long as teamwork is at the forefront. If I join a group of toons as the last one in the elevator, I do what they want to do, long run, short run, lure, whatever. If I have a group together and we want to use sound, and a stranger comes into the elevator, he should not try to dictate policy.

I often feel just like you do, writing long posts because if you don't it will be torn into pieces by the nitpickers who, if they took the time to ask, would find out that they were mis-informed. I try to speak my mind, and not worry about being politically correct to save face ( not to say that you do ) in this forum that is definately pro noobe.


fancyfrank

[Elfind]

you've got to be kidding me..... why the heck did u even start this unneeded thread Yellow Horse? if they annoy u, change ur district, or help them! yes they bothr me sometimes, but i hold my anger inside of me. be nice PLAY NICE and QUIT UR STUPID BABY WHINING ABOUT NOOBS!!!!!!!!! Threads have been posted about noobs too much!!! so just try to avoid em!!! lord, help the people who constantly whine about noobs! uhg... i need a rest...

[Mr Daddy Mouse]

Originally Posted by FTiodor

I try to speak my mind, and not worry about being politically correct to save face in this forum that is definately pro noobe.

Pro-courtesy? Yes.
Pro-self-respect? Yes.
Does that have an impact on so-called "noobs?" Yes.

[sarcasm]
Yeah, instead of using the merchants' window at the bank, I'll just kick and slug my way to the front of the first line I come to--because I belive myself to be better than everyone else, and that they are in my way.
After all, I'm an important business man, and they're just plebs.
[/sacrasm]

Sorry to see that so many folks are in too much of a hurry--playing a game--to be civil.

[Mrs. Mommy Mouse]

Originally Posted by Mr Daddy Mouse

Sorry to see that so many folks are in too much of a hurry--playing a game--to be civil.

And the man who operates him. It's really great being married to someone who plays games (and life) the way it should be played instead of the way some of the younger (not necessarily talking time, you understand?) folk play.

We can easily take the factory alone. We do, over and over and over again. It's boring. We can usually take the factory with a noobie who is agile enough to avoid the goons and willing to listen to a "wait here" while we run ahead to lure or smash the goons in the warehouse. Those runs are fun. Those are the runs where the Mouse house rocks with the sounds of Mommy and Daddy Mouse laughing.

They take longer and sometimes we're in a hurry. The times when we're in a hurry are the times when, if you don't have sound, you probably won't get many hits. When we're not in a hurry, we LIKE to see you get a new gag or close to 200 points towards your squirt, throw or whatever else you're working. We get hurt a lot if we know you're working toonup.

I like playing with noobies almost as much as I love living with my--very nice--Mouse.

[Mr Daddy Mouse]

Yeah, I can be nice.....LOL.

Originally Posted by Yellow Horse

The bottom line is this, if a noob gets on an elevator with a group of high laffers...

1. He's lucky to be getting an easy trip through the factory
2. His objectives (skill points, working gags, lava room goodies etc) probably won't be the same as the high laffers
3. As the oddball of the group (is that PC?) he will either need to conform to how the majority is playing and to their objectives (merit run, fast run, working gags etc) or have a miserable time. That's true for all of us. Occasionally I get a ride with 3 other high laffers thinking we'll sound gag our way through, only to see that I'm playing with a group working lure/trap combos. Oh well...that's life. I do what I can to work my own gags and conform.
4. He has to understand that the high laffers can make him go sad if he acts like a jerk

Let's see...what has really been said can best be summed-up as follows:
1. A noob [child] has to understand that they'd better get with the program and liberally kiss the rear of an egotist.
2. Almost everyone he'll meet is selfish and insecure.
3. Even if he doesn't have the same gags as the high-laffers, he'll be held to do as they do, or be deliberatley "sad-ded" for non-conformity.
4. Some high-laffers are hypocrites.
CONCLUSION:
If you can be called a "noob", and you don't like the way you're treated, you have to jump servers to a less-populated district, where you have far less resources to encounter to get through the factory.
You have to do that because the group of high-laffers--who have firmly established affiliations and more resources at their disposal--can't be bothered to jump servers to accomodate their selfish and rude playing style.

No, it isn't ToonTown anymore. It's StreetFighter Death Match OnLine.

[Yellow Horse]

This topic has been a lot of fun and good for a lot of laughs. Even after the opening sentence in my first post and my tongue in cheek disclaimers in my 2nd post, I get blasted for what the snobs assume I meant and was thinking instead of what I actually wrote. Perhaps many here just like to hear the clicks of their keyboards and aren't really concerned with rational discussion. Or maybe there are some who just want to make a specific point and will distort my words to suit their argument.

Note to Wizard Hawk...

I'm just beginning my 5,500 point merit runs so I don't rate the desire to make them quickly? Now who's the elitest toon?? Hypocrite!!!

[Tunearu]

Umm...I believe the eliteist toon is still you.

[Mrs. Mommy Mouse]

Originally Posted by Yellow Horse

This topic has been a lot of fun and good for a lot of laughs. Even after the opening sentence in my first post and my tongue in cheek disclaimers in my 2nd post, I get blasted for what the snobs assume I meant and was thinking instead of what I actually wrote.

<snip>

I'm just beginning my 5,500 point merit runs so I don't rate the desire to make them quickly? Now who's the elitest toon?? Hypocrite!!!

It IS frustrating when people insist on thinking that just because you say rude things that you're a rude person, isn't it?

Or when, in spite of prefacing the nastiness with, "it's only a suggestion" we still insist on telling you how valuable we consider your suggestion?

The elitest toon? <shrugging> IMHO, I'd have to pick me. I consider myself too good to play with those who make the type of "suggestions" that you feel helpful.

[WizardHawk]

Originally Posted by Yellow Horse

This topic has been a lot of fun and good for a lot of laughs. Even after the opening sentence in my first post and my tongue in cheek disclaimers in my 2nd post, I get blasted for what the snobs assume I meant and was thinking instead of what I actually wrote. Perhaps many here just like to hear the clicks of their keyboards and aren't really concerned with rational discussion. Or maybe there are some who just want to make a specific point and will distort my words to suit their argument.

Note to Wizard Hawk...

I'm just beginning my 5,500 point merit runs so I don't rate the desire to make them quickly? Now who's the elitest toon?? Hypocrite!!!

You are REALLY lost aren't you?

1) Since you believe that lower toons have no business working gags, and yet it is ok for higher toons to do so, you are the hypocrite. Plain and simple.

2) You are the one who thinks that anyone who posts critical replies to your posts are 'blasting you' and that this means we are really saying that you are not allowed to post them in the first place unless you have sent them to at least 3 of us for prior written approval. Get over yourself man. No one ever told you that you were not free to voice your opinions and yet you are trying to take away our right to do so. Again, this would seem to be hypocrisy wouldn't it?

3) You keep calling anyone who believes that there is no harm in taking lower toons through the factory 'snobs' and yet it is you that has very tight beliefs under which you would like to see those toons in there. Looks like the pot calling the kettle black to me.

4) I never said you were not allowed to have the 'desire to work fast' in the factory. I never 'suggested' that you were not allowed to play any which way you like. You (once again) took things I said out of context and attempt to ues it to make you look like the good guy. I'll give you the exact quote you are trying to talk about and explain it in simpler terms for you (see why I have to have such long posts fancy frank? lol):

This guy hasn't even completed one full rotation at 5500 merits yet and he is sounding like he has 'been there, and done that' over and over. At least you frank have been to the places you are talking about. I have much more respect for your position because of it.

What the first line says is: You have not gone through any of the repetitive cycles of the 5500 merit runs/VP run/repeat, however you come across in your first post as if you are just tired of having spent so many hours with these lower toons who do all of those things you listed as you have toiled away on those runs.

Does that say anything about "I'm just beginning my 5,500 point merit runs so I don't rate the desire to make them quickly"? Now who is putting words into someone else’s mouths? Where is the suggestion that I am superior to you, and as such, I, and only I, have the right to say how the factory should go for anyone else? Once again you have failed to give ONE example of where I am an elitist person or a 'snob'. If you simply cannot back up your insults, do us all a favor and stop using them.

I have clearly laid out where you are a hypocrite in several areas and where I am consistent in my postings. Ball has been returned to your side of the court.

[Mr Daddy Mouse]

Originally Posted by Yellow Horse

Perhaps many here just like to hear the clicks of their keyboards and aren't really concerned with rational discussion.

Fortunately, those types are still--or so it would seem--in the minority.

Rest assured that we do possess the rationality and civility to forgive you for exactly that.