level 1 cc's against the vp - common sense

[TomWhiskrdoodle]

I know Fat Bebop's thread was closed, but I wanted to chime in with one completely non-controversial statement.

Common sense dictates that you shouldn't go in the elevator with more than four level 1's (depending on how confident you are).

The simple fact is, most people don't read the forums and guides and don't know about jumping, hitting the open box, and pushing him back. You end up faced with the tough choice of going after the VP and watching them all go sad around you, or healing them and watching the VP climb back towards you possibly making you all go sad.

Regarding 90+ laffers making bad moves in cog battle, who knows what that's all about--not me.

[maxgoof]

If your intent is to get through and win against the VP and you'll be disappointed and upset if that doesn't happen, yes, don't go in there with a bunch of level 1's. In fact, don't go in with anyone who has fewer gags and fewer laff points and is a lower level cog than you. This, of course, means that you'll constantly be playing the elevator dance.

If, on the other hand, you've been through it a few times and want to show noobies the ropes, by all means, go in, even if you get sadded. What's the worst? You have to get tooned up, get your gags again, and run through the factory three more times. I'd say that was worth it, to help them see what they need to work on.

[TomWhiskrdoodle]

Originally posted by maxgoof
In fact, don't go in with anyone who has fewer gags and fewer laff points and is a lower level cog than you. This, of course, means that you'll constantly be playing the elevator dance.

Sigh. I made a simple factual statement and you applied a fallacious slippery slope argument to it to make me sound like a jerk, ostensibly to boost your anti-elitist view.

I was by no means arguing that you exclude beginners, avoid showing them the ropes, or that you should be a snob in any way. Absolutely not! I was specifically stating that if you go in with more than four first-timers it won't go well for anyone.

If you go in there with you and 7 first-timers who don't know how to fight the VP, you are not going to be able to explain it in speedchat and they won't learn anything. They will be fixated on the VP and will be surrounded by people throwing pies randomly--there aren't enough examples of people doing it right. Everyone will end up going sad and no one will learn anything.

On the other hand if you have at least 4 experienced players the inexperienced toons can stand back and might be able to see that you jump when the VP jumps, notice the pies hitting the box, notice that the VP only moves back when stunned, notice that being hit with pies heals them, etc. You might even be able to heal them AND beat the VP, and even if they go sad at least they've learned some of the ropes.

I think you made an important point that is complimentary to mine and I totally agree with it, but you didn't need to slap down my points by putting words in my mouth to emphasize your own comments.

[wile-ecoyote]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I can respect that. The more number of advanced cog levels you fight with, the better your chances of winning. Just last night, a brand new SF said "Wow" to me for being at Name Dropper Level 5. I don't think that ND5 is really that great, but in relation to her CC3 or CC4, she was impressed.

However, realize this... I have several toons. Only 1 is doing VP battles right now, totally maxxed on all gags and 102 laff.

The next in line (among my toons) has laff in the 80s. When I get her advanced enough for VP, I will start her on the journey. (Yes, even with 80s laff, she's not ready til she gets more big gags). But of course, her first time in, she will be a Cold Caller Level 1.

Just food for thought. A Cold Caller Level 1 doesn't necessarily mean that the toon's operator is new at the VP. The problem is, you just don't know. As time progresses, I think you will see fewer and fewer masses of CC1s waiting at the VP elevator.

Now, it's a different story when the next HQ is released. We'll all be Level 1s on that first day, LOL.

[Bunny Summers]

Originally posted by TomWhiskrdoodle
I know Fat Bebop's thread was closed, but I wanted to chime in with one completely non-controversial statement.

Common sense dictates that you shouldn't go in the elevator with more than four level 1's (depending on how confident you are).

Regarding 90+ laffers making bad moves in cog battle, who knows what that's all about--not me.

You kind of got onto maxgoof for telling another viewpoint but all in all, what makes your statement common sense? (I'm not saying it's NOT common sense to you or that you don't have a right to feel that way...so don't take it personal)

I would go in with 7 level 1 cold callers if I felt like it. What IS common sense is the statement in parenthesis...depending how confident you are.

I would say go in with anyone you feel confident enough to make it through. If you like adventure, go in with 7 of them. If you like a little adventure, go in with only a 2-4 of them. If you like to play it safe, go in with a group of "regulars" (the same people every time).

But maxgoof is right, it all depends on what you're going in there for....to win, to educate, or to get a bigger challenge. I agree totally. But anytime you have more than 1 person in a forum, expect someone to bring up a different perspective. Well, if it's just one person, that's not really a forum...hehehe. It's more like ramblings of a mad man talking to himself. Either way, when someone offers you another view point, don't take it personally. From what maxgoof said, i didn't take it to mean he was saying you were a jerk, or that he was anti-elitist. I think it's all in the way you take it.

[TomWhiskrdoodle]

Originally posted by Bunny Summers
You kind of got onto maxgoof for telling another viewpoint but all in all, what makes your statement common sense?

I guess my posts are all too wordy--everyone seems to have missed my points. Much shorter version...

What is common sense is that if you have too many beginners, there's a good chance you won't win. I added the point that if there are too many beginners they won't be able to learn the ropes. I was not saying good or bad--it was simply a statement of fact.

Maxgoof's point was also a statement of fact--if you don't care so much about winning it doesn't matter who you go with--I totally concur. Very important for someone to point that out too.

There's no argument, just two relatively obvious statements. I was simply admonishing him not to emphasize his point by painting my point as an extreme position.

Personally, I am starting to get bored stiff when cog fights and VP runs come too easily because I go with too many skilled toons--bring on the beginners! I love a challenge!

[maxgoof]

Good! Come by Wednesday nights at 7pm EST, then. I'll be taking in all comers, regardless of level.

Had my first run today. Everyone was sadded but me and a very experienced toon who bailed at the last second to save her merit. It's a very odd experience to face the freed toon alone.

[UMT]

TomWhiskrdoodle, I understand what your trying to say. You are forgetting that everyone was a CC1 at one time. Everyone figured out pretty quickly what needed to be done.

On test, we were all CC1, and I might add, we never lost a battle once he became beatable. We did it without the knowledge of how to do it. We didn't have the option of reading about it for a month like so many people here did. We aslo did it constantly with 70laff toons and up, but that's another discussion. It's not that hard to figure out what to do. It's not advanced mathmatics.

As long as your playing with strangers, there will always be confusion.

[GurlCogFighter]

Originally posted by maxgoof
Good! Come by Wednesday nights at 7pm EST, then. I'll be taking in all comers, regardless of level.

Had my first run today. Everyone was sadded but me and a very experienced toon who bailed at the last second to save her merit. It's a very odd experience to face the freed toon alone.

lol Good Job!

[CBD]

How is his view anti-elitest? It's completely true. I have a (thinks) lv2 telemarketer on test. None of my open toons have any higher than 3/10 parts, and still a lv1 CC. How do you know a couple of CCs there aren't someone who has a Mingler costume, and is playing a different character?

I feel sorry got the 102 laffer with a lv1CC costume who walks into the main building when you are there. He's probably standing there wondering what the hack you are talking about by saying "I think this is too risky for you.", and then getting mad becuase he won't leave.

No matter how you part, it, its still rude to exclude people for something as ridiculos as that. Just show them what you DO have to do that one time, and they'll be great the next time. You certainly didn't do great the first time around, but now you're great, right?

Noobs going into a VP battle is MOST OF THE TIME (note: most of the time) a totally different thing. If the 90+ laffers with low lv suits come in, and they don't know EVERYTHING about the V.P., they can usually make up for it with their gags, and high laff in the cog battle. Moving onto the V.P. may make it more difficult, but they'll catch on soon enough, you did.

[denisse]

Originally posted by maxgoof
Good! Come by Wednesday nights at 7pm EST, then. I'll be taking in all comers, regardless of level.

Had my first run today. Everyone was sadded but me and a very experienced toon who bailed at the last second to save her merit. It's a very odd experience to face the freed toon alone.

oh i meant to show up! forgot all about it! what district was it again? sillyham?

[maxgoof]

Originally posted by denisse
oh i meant to show up! forgot all about it! what district was it again? sillyham?

Kookyboro. We'll wait until 7:15 to catch stragglers, and depending on how many we have, we'll either go in there, or move to another district.

If we have 8, we'll move to the least populated district. This will minimize the likelihood that we will run into an elevator dance.

If we have six or seven, we'll probably wait on the porch for a couple more, then go in.

Fewer than that, we will likely go to a more populated district to pick up some more, then move to an unpopulated district.

In any case, Kookyboro Wednesday 7 PM EST.

[TomWhiskrdoodle]

Originally posted by maxgoof
Good! Come by Wednesday nights at 7pm EST, then. I'll be taking in all comers, regardless of level.

Sounds fun!

Originally posted by Ugly Marigold Twiddlesnout
You are forgetting that everyone was a CC1 at one time. Everyone figured out pretty quickly what needed to be done.

Are you asserting that a group of all first-timers--with no experienced toons to imitate--would just spontaneously figure it out in one or two tries with no help from forums, guides, or tips?

Maybe I am slow on the uptake, but based on my personal experience I find that incredibly hard to believe--the first time I went against the VP I didn't have the slightest clue, and it was very hard to figure out what to do because there were a lot of other beginners and all I saw was people throwing pies randomly and taking -10 laff every time he jumped. I really wished that I had gone with a few more experienced toons who could've taught by example.

Originally posted by CBD
I feel sorry got the 102 laffer with a lv1CC costume who walks into the main building when you are there. He's probably standing there wondering what the hack you are talking about by saying "I think this is too risky for you.", and then getting mad becuase he won't leave.

You have either not read my posts at all or completely misunderstood them. How many times do I need to say that I agreed with his point?

I can't do this anymore. You're right, I'm wrong, even though we aren't actually stating mutually-exclusive points. Happy?

[Greebo]

But still, SOMEONE managed to figure out how to fight the VP without forums or HQ guides.

It IS possible, it just requires work.

[UMT]

Are you asserting that a group of all first-timers--with no experienced toons to imitate--would just spontaneously figure it out in one or two tries with no help from forums, guides, or tips?

I can tell you this. From the first V.P. battle ever done by non developers (I was not part of that group), the toons were able to push the V.P. all the way down to the bottom. They were not able to push him over. That part of the game was not done yet. It was much harder to get him down then, we had to return to the cage every 20 pies to resupply. That allowed the V.P. to battle back up the hill.

I do believe to could be done.