Can some of you guys please keep this in mind?

[DutchAmerica]

I have had my cog suit for awhile. I am a 83 laffer, Lvl 6 squirt & throw, lvl 5 toon up, drop and sound, lvl 3 trap. I know strategy and I know how to battle. I have done vp battle once and went sad at almost the very end. I think I may have been the only one to go sad in that battle.

I am not really interesting in doing vp battle until after all of the jumpy high strung toons are bored and then I will go in. But I do so much love to go into the lobby and talk COG talk to my other friends.

My 54 laffer has her suit too. I've never had her in vp battle but again, I go into the lobby just to talk COG talk to my friends. Maxxed toons will call me names and be just really stinky to me. I am down on the lobby floor near the door. I am no where near the elevator. Some of these guys are sooo paranoid they will attack just about anybody that isn't maxxed. It is sooo sad these guys take this game sooo seriously.

[WizardHawk]

I don't agree with putting up a barrier to keep little toons from the HQ. The problem that has led to this giant battle between the high toons and lower toons was caused by poor programming and a release of a non-debugged version of the new area. Now that it seems that the bugs are worked out (haven't had one single crash in the last 5 runs) you will see more and more high toons willing to take at least one low toon along for the ride. As I stated in Dutch's thread, I for one would love the challange of seeing just how low of a toon we can take and still keep alive to the end. We have gone with 6, made it with 5, and want to try doing a run with just 4 high toons. No reason not to go and take a couple of medium toons along to help them as well as provide more challange for us.

I hereby throw down the challange to any and all high toons. See how low of a toon you can help through to the end and gain a promotion. First person to get a 40 or lower through should make a new thread about it. Let's all start being a part of the real solution and spread the word about the disconnection problem being mostly gone now. TAKE THOSE LITTLE TOONS ALONG!

From now on, those high toons that just attack anyone below 90 will be seen as just an elitist toon or an idiot...

[ms nuttypeaches]

Originally posted by Pf Wackyblabber
Cog HQ has brought out some bad behavior all arround. I have had to change the way I play because of it.

I completely agree...but there is a poliet way to avoid much of the ugliess. I think it just depends on the toons you hang out with! More recenly the group I play with try to stay away from the crowded districts. Move to one where there are fewer toons...and then avoid the 'ugliness' of having to ditch a toon in the elevator game.

Szlin Peaches

[Hannibal]

I can't seem to get away from soapbox on this issue...

* * *

You simply can't sell me on the need to exclude players from any content on the basis of an arbitrary point on one or both of the existing toontown leveling treadmills (i.e. LPs and strength of gag track) as an implicit 'given'. Granted, this is the "tried and true" solution that players have been trained to accept by the gaming community as "that's just the way it is", but it's simply not necessary.

One of Toontown's greatest strengths is that play is somewhat independent of the leveling treadmill in that you can play anywhere, with anyone, against anything. Soft 'tiers' have always existed to encourage play in the right areas and practical limits have always existed in that there are some things that it's simply not efficient to do until a player's toon is advanced enough.

Another strength of Toontown is that toons are not inherently penalized by grouping with other toons of disparate strength. They get the same credit for cogs and for their use of gags.

* * *

The complaints, and consequently the solutions, are misplaced responses to the actual game problems. Example:

- Players cannot succeed in their battles when their companions are unwilling or unable to contribute.
- players have no companion selection other than opportunity.
- Players recognize that less experienced players are frequently imposed upon them.
- Players recognize that stubborn players are frequently imposed upon them.
- Players recognize that poor players are frequently imposed upon them.
- Players attribute these undesirable characteristics to toons with low laff points.

The solution being presented on these boards is almost invariably to segregate low laff toons from content, specifically Cog HQ, when in fact the real issue is that you cannot select your companions. If players had some control over parties (beyond elevator dancing) and could limit their personal risk (primarily time), they'd have no valid reason to complain about how others are playing the game. The notion that it should be exclusive based upon tenure or advancement is just petty. I'd posit that if eight 15-laff point toons wanted to take on Sellbot HQ, they should all be allowed to do so. But to that end, either the content will destroy them utterly or the HQ should be implemented to adjust its difficulty to the quality of its foes (meaning it should get tougher for better toons) - depending upon Disney's mission.

Personally, I would resist putting in a straight 'party' system like other games have because I believe that mingling is what online games are about... if you want to play alone or with your group of friends, Disney should probably put out a standalone version so you don't bother the rest of us.

- At the minimum, Disney should give us the 'visual clue' that informs people at a glance that you are 'partied' with someone.
- If partying up is going to be coded to lock up battle memberships, I think 'partying' up should probably encourage different groups each time and possibly involve a quest/task... hmmm - maybe a leader reward from a task to allow a toon to form a party?

Specifically addressing Cog HQ, I believe Disney had a rare opportunity to create a venue where new and experienced players could band together in common cause and missed it. Earlier I suggested two different groups separated by laff points against a different set of challenges. Consider these options also:

- Throwing switches or run a separate gauntlet to lower the toon you're saving (possibly as a better stage transition)... maybe an early success in this area brings him in as an ally against the boss?
- Ferrying pies when toons run out (I think the unlimited pie thing is really silly).
- UNRELATED PET PEEVE: I really dislike the inability to use your gags in Cog HQ. Allow toons to use or share gags in the boss battle (specifically toonup).
- others?

[Loosy Goosy]

Originally posted by WizardHawk

I hereby throw down the challange to any and all high toons. See how low of a toon you can help through to the end and gain a promotion. First person to get a 40 or lower through should make a new thread about it. Let's all start being a part of the real solution and spread the word about the disconnection problem being mostly gone now. TAKE THOSE LITTLE TOONS ALONG!

I have better things to do with my time, thanks. I won't go out of
my way to round up these toons for a VP run, but if they're there
wanting to go, I'll go with them. Anyone who knows me knows I
love the challenge, but I won't manufacture it just to fulfill your
challenge.

Originally posted by WizardHawk
From now on, those high toons that just attack anyone below 90 will be seen as just an elitist toon or an idiot...

First of all, define "attack". If you define telling a mid-laffer in the
VP Lobby "I think this is too risky for you" as an attack then you
need to get a grip. Everyone has their own way of enjoying the
game. It amazes me that people can get upset over the
speedchat, lol. If it was a concern of Disney, they wouldn't be
adding more phrases like "Enough is enough!" "Of all the nerve!"
and "You need more laff points."

Secondly, everyone is an elitist in their own mind—which makes
them appear as idiots when theirs clashes with others.

[Loosy Goosy]

Originally posted by Hannibal
Specifically addressing Cog HQ, I believe Disney had a rare opportunity to create a venue where new and experienced players could band together in common cause and missed it.

Programatically, Disney could sort out the 8 toons into 2 groups
as it does now but have the lowest toons on one side and the
highest on the other. Then, the cog levels coming out of the VP
would be directly related to the laff points of the toons. This
would be an EASY fix, however, the factory runs would probably
stay the same, making it tough for 15 laffers to get parts without
leeching.

For example:
Let's say a VP group is comprised of 8 toons:
L15, L24, L40, L50, L88, L90, L100, L102

Programatically, the game can break the group into:
Team A: L15, L24, L40, L50 - these toons would face cogs
typically challenging for their level - let's say L5 - L9 cogs.

Team B: L88, L90, L100, L102 - these toons would face cogs
typically challenging for their level, ie. cogs that now spawn, or
perhaps even more challenging - L8 - L12.

That way, everyone has the potential of enjoying the great VP
pie fight, while earning their way TO the pie fight by defeating the
2 waves of cogs on a comparitively equal difficulty

[WizardHawk]

Interesting that you chose such a response to my post. You have more interesting things to do than to 'round up' little toons. I do not belive that I said anything about rounding up, nor going out of your way to take them. I am not suggesting anyone camp out in TTC and make friends with low toons to drag them along. There are many lower toons inside the HQ every day. More than enough to just take one or two along.

The point of the my suggestion is to get people to stop making up reasons to prevent lower toons from going in the first place. Your post would have it so that there is a cut-off point at which lower toons would be allowed to have the honor of joining your presence at the elevator and I'm saying that is not needed now that the disconnction problems are going away. And as to my point about 'attacking lower toons', I mean that now that the problems are being fixed, you shouldn't have a reason to say 'I think this is too risky for you' to an 85 for crying outloud. But what I have seen is not just this, but 'you stink' and other rude actions toward someone who is just sitting inside the front door of the HQ. There has been a mentality that only very high toons could make it through to the end of the VP battle and that taking any lower toons would cause the death of the entire party. This was at least partially true when you didn't know how many would get knocked off the server before the final battle. It is no longer true now and I am trying to help change that view.

You see, instead of just attacking the views of others, I am attempting to be a part of the solution. I want to make a possitive change and make HQ fun for EVERYONE. Would you take a 60 into a 5story in DL if you had at least one other 10x with you? I would have no problem with it and that is what the attitude should be about the HQ. No reason to take a 50 or 60 along with a good group as they can't hurt you too much and its a good challange for your skills.

[Lady Slippy Wondercrump]

For example:
Let's say a VP group is comprised of 8 toons:
L15, L24, L40, L50, L88, L90, L100, L102

Programatically, the game can break the group into:
Team A: L15, L24, L40, L50 - these toons would face cogs
typically challenging for their level - let's say L5 - L9 cogs.

Team B: L88, L90, L100, L102 - these toons would face cogs
typically challenging for their level, ie. cogs that now spawn, or
perhaps even more challenging - L8 - L12.

That way, everyone has the potential of enjoying the great VP
pie fight, while earning their way TO the pie fight by defeating the
2 waves of cogs on a comparitively equal difficulty

Great theory, but possibly the highest and the lowest toon on each team would clash.

L15: That L50 is bossing me around
L50: That L15 squirted a flower at the level 9 when we had all decided to go after the L7 cog.

L102: Geez, that dancing stick didn't quite work so well there L88 guy. Come back when you can juggle.
L88: (actually i got nothing for this guy LOL)

Now please, im not saying this WOULD happen and that ALL toons behave this way. But there are ppl behind the toons, and everybody seems to enjoy complaining these days. Oh wait im doing that now. It's contagious.

[Loosy Goosy]

Originally posted by WizardHawk
You see, instead of just attacking the views of others, I am attempting to be a part of the solution.

Did you really think my reply to you was an attack? LOL! Perhaps
that's the underlying problem all along! We've become over-sensitive.

Don't use "You stink!"
Don't say "This is too risky for you."
Don't strand toons in the factory.
Don't be mean to low toons.

Get real. This is a pay-to-play game, and if someone wants to do
any of that, more power to them. If they NEVER want a low laffer
in the same VP run with them, let them. Heck, I'd even support Sir
Spiffy's right to grieve as he has openly admitted and documented
in a movie. I would never do it but it's within the parameters of
the game to do so.

[WizardHawk]

lol

There is a fair amount of risk in taking 3 or more 'lower' toons just because of the random splits on each round. But that is the fun of a real challange. I'm not afraid of going sad. What, you are out 80 beans and a couple of parts runs? Like 80 beans means anything to someone over 100 when you can get 1000+ for killing 80 cogs. Yes there is a much greater risk to the lower toons as they are harder to keep alive but if they go sad enough to want to wait to go back then that is a part of the game too. If the game put 4 low toons on one side, and 4 high toons on the other, I would try and finish my side as fast as possible to try and save as many as we could. If they all died we would have the challange of making it to the end with 4 (very do-able). Either way, its only a game to me and I just like to have fun and find new ways of challanging myself to try and keep it interesting. That isn't easy to do when you spend hours trying to catch a rare fish in DG!!! Oh well, someday I'll get that flourence nurse shark! ;-)

[DutchAmerica]

Hmm, I remember there being a lot more than 2 waves of cogs.

The one time I went in, all 8 of us made it passed those cogs fine. We had timed toon ups, just right so we all were 100 percent. It's when we got into the pie battle that damage started getting done. I didn't know about the pie toon up thing. I wish I had. It's really not something some one in there for the 1st time would know. Now my question is, all those 'experienced' toons could have taught that one to me real quick at the beginning of the pie battle.

I am just wondering whatever happened to mentoring.

Red mouse
Laff 83
Level 6/Maxx - Squirt Throw
Level 5 - Sound, toon up, drop
Level 3 - Trap

Cold Caller Sell bot Level 1
Hardwood rod - 26 different fish,
and the prettiest house in town

[Fire Mouse]

Two 102 laff toons stood in the elevator for the factory and a 35 laff jumped in with them. We noticed he was late getting to the first battle but didn't think much of it. We took the balcony short cut and he was not able to. Did we leave him? No, after the battle we went back up and escorted him around the long way. However in the next battle he hid in the corner until there was only one cog left, then joined in. He tried the same on the roof until the speed chat of "Can you help me" was used over and over. He finally joined in.

I think the lower laffs need to meet us half way. If you want to be in a factory run, please be helpful. Don't just come along for a free ride. I don't mind helping but you must be willing to battle at my side.

OK..........(*steps down off soapbox *)..........FM

[WizardHawk]

Originally posted by Loosy Goosy
Did you really think my reply to you was an attack? LOL! Perhaps
that's the underlying problem all along! We've become over-sensitive.

Don't use "You stink!"
Don't say "This is too risky for you."
Don't strand toons in the factory.
Don't be mean to low toons.

Get real. This is a pay-to-play game, and if someone wants to do
any of that, more power to them. If they NEVER want a low laffer
in the same VP run with them, let them. Heck, I'd even support Sir
Spiffy's right to grieve as he has openly admitted and documented
in a movie. I would never do it but it's within the parameters of
the game to do so.

My post actually responded to your direct response to me, as well as a few others you have posted on this topic as should have been clear when I refered to your 'cut-off' comments from another post on this thread. And I was saying that instead of looking to fight about problems, I am looking to help solve them for those who are reachable. If you choose not to, good for you! I don't expect everyone to come running to a challange. It was meant to get people to rethink how they feel about the VP runs. It was meant to get people's attention more than being a literal challange. My view has already helped a few high toons and low toons hook up for runs which is all I wanted in the first place. As far as the 'right' to be stinky or mean to other players, that may be true enough but the point is should people do that over a video game? Especially when you take into account that a large number of toons are played by kids. Do you think its cool for others to attack kids? I just offered my OPINION which may be in contrast to your own, but I am entitled to it non the less. I am by no means 'over-sensitive'. I look forward to debating/argueing with you any time you have an opposing point! I have never shyed away from a good internet debate. Who in the world can take it personal when its just a 2 dimensional word-fest about a video game?

[ms nuttypeaches]

[quote]Originally posted by Loosy Goosy
[b]I have better things to do with my time, thanks. I won't go out of
my way to round up these toons for a VP run, but if they're there
wanting to go, I'll go with them. Anyone who knows me knows I
love the challenge, but I won't manufacture it just to fulfill your
challenge.


Curious...what does it really matter now at a level 12 Hollywood.

Say you go in with a bunch of low level toons and go sad? Ok so you have to round up parts again....2 -4 runs! at 5 min a piece!

Nothing compared to having to round up parts and 10000 merrits again...and you have the pure joy of playing the game!

My thoughts anyway!

Just looking for ways to make the game more challenging!

PS Still want to do a 4 some one day! How cool would it be to go in as 2 with good SOS cards!

Peaches!

[Lady Slippy Wondercrump]

Owoooo!!! My head hurts...