Yo genius: leave your small magnets at home!

[Flippers]

Say there are three level 11s and a 12. You use that to toon everyone and lure. Then in the next round two hit one and two hit another. More come and one lures "normal" and three hit the 12 or two hit and one reTUs after one fell short the previous round. Oopsie there goes a pinchy pinchy gesture by a cog that wakes up... that's the best case scenario.

[Prof. Graham Soursnooker]

Originally Posted by Flippers McGurgle

Prof Graham you aren't listening. So what if it works? It doesn't if it cannot hold 3-4 cogs more than two rounds.

To be fair I believe it was you who wasn't listening. I was advocating the use fo the organic small magnet with trap. I only have up to the small magnet in my grden as I am more interested in the organic bonus for throw gags. That being said, I am convinced that the organic small magnet works better than the non-organic large magnet when traps are in place. I have been doing it again today and the success for the small magnet is 20% greater than the big magnet.

With untrapped cogs, the organic small and non-organic big are about the same. Thus I carry the small with me instead of the big. Wolfeh's previous post was very astute and I won't go into more here, but I will second it. If you are trapping, why would you need more than 3 rounds (including the initial round) to kill all of the cogs? if you have two trappers with TNT and are facing three 11s and a 12 like at the end of a bullion, you can lure with the small magnet and TNT against one 11 and the 12 while the other person hoses the 12 to finish him; then cake/cream the next two 11s and you're done.

If you are in a boss cog fight, trap 2 of 4 or even 1 of four and you still have 3 toons to kill the others whil one lures (if you are using LLKR). 3 toons should be able to kill 3 big cogs in 2 rounds.

The reason i really carry it though is so that I can use my goggles when there are no traps and go with the small magnet when there are traps; thereby saving my goggles. Lots of people reason this way and use big magnet with traps. If this is the case and the organic small hits more than the big on traps, then why not use it instead. Only makes sense to me.


Edit: Oh yeah I wanted to add that like the rest I get a big kick out of small gags. Sue me for having fun with the game, don't run with me if that offends you, I don't care, but I'm gonna enjoy myself however I can. And if the smaller gags don't hurt the team I promise you will see a cupcake in my selection window. Sometimes there is no need whatsoever to select a gag, yet some select one anyway. Why not have a little fun with the wasted turn.

[cincyconway]

I find the idea of using the small magnet on traps reasonable, but what will you do when the level 7 gags come out?

[Wolfeh]

Originally Posted by cincyconway

I find the idea of using the small magnet on traps reasonable, but what will you do when the level 7 gags come out?

I'm waiting for the level 8 gags.. The ones that not only hit the 4 cogs in front of you, but the 20+ cogs you haven't come across yet. With 1 hit, you go from cog round to pie round in the VP.

Nevermind, I want the level 10 gags, with one throw, all cog-fighting part of tasks are done, so all you have to do is get each task and complete the other parts. Go from 15 to 100 laff in less than an hour.

[Flippers]

Well Professor, we aren't talking about three TNTs. We're talking about the typical scenario of securing cogs for the max number of rounds needed in a typical lineup of mixed Laff and gag resources during a VP.

[badguy]

Let us not lose sight of the big picture here.

You haven't really done enough trials to say that organic small magnet is better than regular big magnet.

My take on Flipper's disagreement on use of red magnets is not for single round battles, but prolong ones like the vp where cogs keep on coming and toons really cannot trap and kill every round. Also, small toons usually do not have the gags to kill more than one big cog per round. Big toons, who can, don't often rely on lures to work (they prefer sound), besides they have the goggles.

LLKR strategy is more employed with small toons. Small toons have small gags, they don't have the TNT, they need the lure to last longer.

Originally Posted by Prof. Graham Soursnooker

To be fair I believe it was you who wasn't listening. I was advocating the use fo the organic small magnet with trap. I only have up to the small magnet in my grden as I am more interested in the organic bonus for throw gags. That being said, I am convinced that the organic small magnet works better than the non-organic large magnet when traps are in place. I have been doing it again today and the success for the small magnet is 20% greater than the big magnet.

With untrapped cogs, the organic small and non-organic big are about the same. Thus I carry the small with me instead of the big. Wolfeh's previous post was very astute and I won't go into more here, but I will second it. If you are trapping, why would you need more than 3 rounds (including the initial round) to kill all of the cogs? if you have two trappers with TNT and are facing three 11s and a 12 like at the end of a bullion, you can lure with the small magnet and TNT against one 11 and the 12 while the other person hoses the 12 to finish him; then cake/cream the next two 11s and you're done.

If you are in a boss cog fight, trap 2 of 4 or even 1 of four and you still have 3 toons to kill the others whil one lures (if you are using LLKR). 3 toons should be able to kill 3 big cogs in 2 rounds.

The reason i really carry it though is so that I can use my goggles when there are no traps and go with the small magnet when there are traps; thereby saving my goggles. Lots of people reason this way and use big magnet with traps. If this is the case and the organic small hits more than the big on traps, then why not use it instead. Only makes sense to me.


Edit: Oh yeah I wanted to add that like the rest I get a big kick out of small gags. Sue me for having fun with the game, don't run with me if that offends you, I don't care, but I'm gonna enjoy myself however I can. And if the smaller gags don't hurt the team I promise you will see a cupcake in my selection window. Sometimes there is no need whatsoever to select a gag, yet some select one anyway. Why not have a little fun with the wasted turn.

[sara73]

Originally Posted by Prof. Graham Soursnooker

I am convinced that the organic small magnet works better than the non-organic large magnet when traps are in place. I have been doing it again today and the success for the small magnet is 20% greater than the big magnet.

I planted lure trees up to the 5$ bill and I agree. I have the 5$ and the red magnet, both organic and I have the blue magnet not organic, the red magnet beats the blue for me now.

[Wolfeh]

I'm currently 114 laff, maxed, trapless. No, I'm not 129 nor 125 nor 120. But that doesn't mean anything really.

My point? The fact that I'm a rather high laffer with maxed gags and someone who can survive a VP battle with less than 8 toons (if I really really wanted to, I'm sure I could solo, but that's not my thing). I've even won a VP with a smaller toon (that I was playing) where everyone on the other side went sad and by the end of it, there was only one other toon and myself. Even the high laffers went sad, despite attempts to keep them alive. In short, I know how to play.

That being said, when you get right down to it, there is no "one size fits all" method of playing. Yes there are bits and pieces of strategies to use for certain circumstances, such as LLKR, but it comes down to what you have to work with and how things are going _at that time_.

For example, my general rule of vp is that I will piano the 12. I don't care what other cogs are there. So long as someone does 30+ to the 12, my piano will finish him off. The other cogs, usually no higher than level 3's, can bite my toony booty, because once that 12 is gone, they're living on borrowed time. If following that plan isn't good for whatever reason, then whatever else seems to be the game plan is what will be done, although it's rare for that 12 to not chew on some ebony and ivory flavored keys.

If I believe that the team can handle it, there are 11's and 12's and there's no way to take them all out in one round, I might do something odd. Namely, I'll fog the cogs/skele's. If someone has sound, they're welcome to join in. Might not kill even 1 of them, but the next round, lure + toon up, then after that, it's easy pickings because if we did at least 100pts of damage, then we can each cake/storm a cog each and they're all history. Usually works better if it's fog and 2 trunks (if they don't have fog too) and the last person takes out the 12 with a cake, leaving 3, but the idea is the same, the next time we hit, it's like fighting level 8's rather than level 11's/12's. Very effective too, and I believe it has helped prevent more problems than it's seemingly caused.

Same with a little lure. I don't care if it only lasts 2 rounds. First round, toon everyone up, next round, take out the big guys (strongest). I'd rather have 4 level 6's than 2 level 12's. Reason being that if both 12's do group attacks, all it takes is for 2 attacks at -24 each and anyone who is under 49 laff and takes both hits will be having 'lazy-head' syndrome. But with 4 level 6's, chances are greater that there will be a miss and that more than 1 player will be attacked out of the 4 cogs.

So little lure and toon up (if needed, otherwise attack the biggest guy). Next round kill off the biggest (or 2 biggest) cogs. Then it's under our control and if there are 2 new cogs, lure them while we attack one more cog. Yeah the last might wake up, but if there are 2 newly lured, we can relure the oldest, take out the 2 new ones, and do a toon up in there too. It's just a matter of adapting to the situation and thinking on your toon feet.

[DJ Max]

My experience shows that using red magnet at the same time as blue magnet or hypno goggles makes the combination hit once out of 100 times. i.e. if you don't want to put your team in a jeopardy , well, bring of course that red magnet for fun, but please don't pull it out on level 8 and higher cogs!

I tested with my friends organic red magnet on higher level cogs - I didn't notice any increase in accuraccy, I wonder where those statistics come from:

Originally Posted by Prof. Graham Soursnooker

Without trap - small magnet hit 22 of 28 times. For comparison the large magnet hit 21 of 35 times, and the goggles hit 16 of 18 times. Not a big difference. (remember also that these are all 10s 11s and 12s.)

With trap - small magnet hit 31 of 32 times, large magnet hit 23 of 29 times, and goggles hit 14 of 15 times.

?

Of course using little gags on high level cogs on runs with friends is fun when it doesn't put anyone in risk. But I know that even on "all pros" so called "Stinky runs" organized by CCG where all toons are high level and experienced ones - fooling arround with baby gags did cause some sadualities few times, which spoiled the "fun taste" in the end for everyone of course.

I think that Flippers with his thread title was refering to all those low gag trainers, to all those low sound/banana peel/flower pot etc users - who senselessly trying to work out their gags during boss fights, and as a result sending severall toons, including often even themselves back to PG.

Of course , sometimes (rather rarelly though) there are situations that lure should be used and the only toon who can use it is the one that doesn't have anything higher than red magnet. Well in this case of course, pull that red one out , close your eyes, and prey! Miracles do happen! lol

Otherwise, unless cogs are under lvl 6 (and even then make sure you don't have a < 25 lp ubber on ur side) - lets experiment with organic baby gags anywhere else, but NOT during boss fights

[Flippers]

Thank you much for clarifying.

[auntkymitoon]

Not when red magnet is used with goggles
[quote=Speedway Master;1412713]My friends did a experiment with the lures, and the lure points (as in number of rounds) adds up when used with other lures. Keep that in mind.[/quote

For the record- I grew Lure on my 117 test fully maxxed test Toon and on my 110 and ladies and gentlemen, unless an update has repaired something- Organiic lure does not appear to be much more effective than Aunt kymitoon's 116 fully maxxed goglees on Test- I am going to do more experimenting now since updates but when you scrool over the box even it has only medium accuracy listed although in te gardening threads it is posted it is more accurate??? I think not much-
let me do some current experimenting HOWEVER- YOU DO NOT GET POINTS FOR THAT RED OR BLUE MAGNET when goggles or used and never have that is a MYTH additionally I believe in VP the cogs lure when programmed to lure and the size of the lure is inconsequential and I do not advocate that read magnet but it works way more often then you think -and I personally tested this out many moons ago- I honestly believe that- fishing on the initial 12 opposed to any magnet ALWAYS ALWAYS works better albeit their are 3 cogs too an that's from my experience/opinion and I do believe my experience and high high success rate in VP on 19 Toons counts for something!! My 2 cents!
PERSONALLY_- I do cringe when someone pulls it out as well but shockingly have had to tu or toss TNT or add a gag to another baby's gag to kill a cog so often I could not lure as well and I'm telling you, it does work- more often than you think you have to be put in that situation as often as I have been to have your mind changed or play 2 as often as I do in a VP to actually get the full picture - bottom line is a small toon should never ever be luring in VP when a bigger lure is beside you unless no one lures- I don't lure on Princess Ainsley who is a Hollywood 108 because she is not maxxed in lure still so I refrain from luing as hers may miss more as it's unmaxxed - absolutely in the mint unmaxxed lure rarely hits first try no matter what Trap I throw and that's fact - I mint on two constantly and there is a huge difference there with the unmaxxed lure- VP I think it's a program deal for some reason- just my opinion!!

[Wolfeh]

Originally Posted by DJ Max

Of course , sometimes (rather rarelly though) there are situations that lure should be used and the only toon who can use it is the one that doesn't have anything higher than red magnet. Well in this case of course, pull that red one out , close your eyes, and prey! Miracles do happen! lol

You can say that again. I think we've all had our share of times when we did something as a last ditch effort, "knowing" that it was pointless to even try, only to have it backfire in our favor (ie, actually work when it shouldn't).

Originally Posted by DJ Max

I think that Flippers with his thread title was refering to all those low gag trainers, to all those low sound/banana peel/flower pot etc users - who senselessly trying to work out their gags during boss fights, and as a result sending severall toons, including often even themselves back to PG.

I believe I've said this before and I don't think anyone will disagree with me. It's ok to gag train during a boss run, so long as it works with the team and not against it. ie, ok to train sound if everyone else is using sound. If their sound will get rid of the cogs, then what's wrong with whipping it out (the bike horn for example)? But yeah, it is rather stupid to whip out the bike horn if someone is using goggles, and the other 2 are doing a group toon up.

[auntkymitoon]

[quote=DJ Max;1414449]My experience shows that using red magnet at the same time as blue magnet or hypno goggles makes the combination hit once out of 100 times. i.e. if you don't want to put your team in a jeopardy , well, bring of course that red magnet for fun, but please don't pull it out on level 8 and higher cogs!

This is not remotely true in my opinion- or you actually tested this in 100 VP runs???and this was the result??Hmmmmmmm

As I said earlier- I believe that LURE period- 2 lures one lure goggles magnet- WHATEVER- is a PROGRAM deal in the VP-Remember I have played 2 Toons on opposite sides more times than I can count in the VP and seen the results over and over when landing beside toons with no lure on same side with my baby who has a lure- and playing a Toon with goggles on opposite side seeing both sides lure fail 2-3 times then take- with goggles on one and red magnet on other- therefore my conclsions/observations are based on experience over and over in VP and although I concur never ever use a lower lure putting others at risk in the VP unless you have no alternative - I think it's a myth if you think that red magnet made your goggles fail- I belive from experiece -either was going to fail anyway if used alone.... my theory- now in other areas I repeatedly lure with blue when baby has red and throw trap as well to build baby lure and it's amazingly successful on random cogs running around outside fac on te 1$ bill which you can never get to work till my maxxed toon starts trapping!
AND YOU GET SKILL POINTS USING BOTH together however if I goggle with red lure, baby gets no skill points-

I never ever trap in VP unless I am funning or using TNT either- why on earth take a change throwing a low leveltrap when other gags are far more precise. Trapping an unlured cog opposed to killing a lure cog with appropriate gags is bad stratedy even having TNT I kill a lured cog ALWAYS before trapping... Why Not??

[Dizzy]

Originally Posted by Flippers McGurgle

Lure NEVER adds up.

Interesting. Then how did my blue magnet and a friend's blue magnet used together hold the cogs for 6 rounds while we were waiting for a new invasion?

[Lady Mo Mo Sparkletoes]

[quote=auntkymitoon;1414462]

Originally Posted by DJ Max

My experience shows that using red magnet at the same time as blue magnet or hypno goggles makes the combination hit once out of 100 times. i.e. if you don't want to put your team in a jeopardy , well, bring of course that red magnet for fun, but please don't pull it out on level 8 and higher cogs!

This is not remotely true in my opinion- or you actually tested this in 100 VP runs???and this was the result??Hmmmmmmm

I bet no one in this thread has really done some serious experimenting with gags thats worthy of being called "evidence." I think people talk more about their experiences from their WHOLE time on TT.

Personally, Lady mo mo Sparkletoes does not have lure, but I know, and I've seen more often than not, that when someone pulls out a magnet when someone else goggles, that it misses. This is something that I've experienced as well, and while there will be cases where this isn't true, of course, it certainly has validation. How many times have you seen a toon scream "NO!!!" when a smaller toon whips out his small magnet when he sees the goggles. Lure is not like sound, it does NOT work better (for the most part, or unless you have a friend who's helping you train lure and willing to risk the chances of it missing) when everyone pulls out their magnets at the same time.