Craning Etiquette?

[LadyZippyBoingenpretzel]

Originally Posted by Flippers McGurgle

flooding chat - which is what they're doing when they cause their toons to blabber in gibberish - is against the game's terms of use.

Really? How so?

[Flippers]

That's like asking how are allcaps considered yelling.

[Wolfeh]

Originally Posted by Flippers McGurgle

btw Wolfeh, flooding chat - which is what they're doing when they cause their toons to blabber in gibberish - is against the game's terms of use.

I can understand a little 'gibberish', like if someone wants to demonstrate that they can SF. But as you know, I'm referring to the ones that do that constantly, non stop.

Originally Posted by LadyZippyBoingenpretzel

Really? How so?

It's annoying behavior. Think about it, if you're trying to do something that isn't annoying, but others are annoying others, on purpose, do you really think that should be allowed? It's a form of causing grief when you get down to it.

[TheLemonmuddle]

For me whoever gets to the crane first-thats their crane. This could change if they are terrible at craning (like throwing safes when he's not dizzy and won't stop no matter how many times we tell them to). If someone takes the crane that I'm closest too I'll move on to gooning. If a crane is empty though then I'll definitely go for it. I won't stand there not doing anything waiting for them to get hit. I also won't take their crane if they get hit unless it's a toon that is sabotaging the team. If someone is getting health I'll take their crane but then if they want it back I'll give it to them. It was different when I was a low suit, I would try so hard to get to the crane. Now that I've cfo'd so much and it's no big deal I really don't care if I'm craning or gooning. Some toons just freak out if they can't crane. I'd rather have a lot of people wanting to crane though than no one. I've been in a few cfo's where everyone wanted to goon...
The whole "goon hog" thing is silly! Isn't stomping all the goons a good thing? If all the goons are stomped by someone else I certainly don't get angry.

[Flippers]

Originally Posted by Wolfeh

I can understand a little 'gibberish', like if someone wants to demonstrate that they can SF. But as you know, I'm referring to the ones that do that constantly, non stop.

It's annoying behavior. Think about it, if you're trying to do something that isn't annoying, but others are annoying others, on purpose, do you really think that should be allowed? It's a form of causing grief when you get down to it.

The main reason why it is against the rules is technical, although it is an aesthetic nuisance.

The fact is it burdens their servers AND the connections of other users.

Flooders are looked at seriously by ANY chat service, so anyone reported enough are sure to be dropped from membership like a hot potato. TT support just needs to know about them. They can then either check server logs or deploy a staffer to their proximity to confirm that toon's habits.

[Wolfeh]

Originally Posted by TheLemonmuddle

Some toons just freak out if they can't crane. I'd rather have a lot of people wanting to crane though than no one. I've been in a few cfo's where everyone wanted to goon...
The whole "goon hog" thing is silly! Isn't stomping all the goons a good thing? If all the goons are stomped by someone else I certainly don't get angry.

I wouldn't mind craning, more to get experience so I can be of more value to the team, being able to do either. However, not at the expensive of a team that doesn't know that I stink at it, and that I'm relying on them to do the real work while I figure out what I'm doing and learn from it.

That sf wasn't getting angry at me for being a goon hog. She was joking with me because I was getting them as soon as they would come out.

[LadyZippyBoingenpretzel]

Originally Posted by Wolfeh

I can understand a little 'gibberish', like if someone wants to demonstrate that they can SF. But as you know, I'm referring to the ones that do that constantly, non stop.

It's annoying behavior. Think about it, if you're trying to do something that isn't annoying, but others are annoying others, on purpose, do you really think that should be allowed? It's a form of causing grief when you get down to it.

LOL. I don't have to think about it - it is annoying.

Who is going to judge between my lightning fast (not to mention witty and grammatically correct ) conversation and the unintelligible happy babble of my 5 year old? And how do YOU, a non-sf, KNOW for a fact that they are typing gibberish? (Yeah, I know. I'm sure they are, too. 99.999999% sure, in fact...but how do you KNOW? Yeah, I know. Report them. I'm sure the punishment will be swift and severe )

If I am having a conversation, it may indeed be annoying to others who can't understand it. In fact - we often read here at TTC of total strangers walking up to a couple of toons on the sidewalk who are chatting annoyingly (about their laundry or dinner plans, or perhaps about the annoying toon who just walked up to them) and whine "I can't understand you. Use the speedchat".

(Now THAT is annoying. Is there a rule against that?)

I type fast. So sue me. If that annoys you - turn your sound off or go elsewhere. My sfs happen to rather enjoy my company.

Originally Posted by Flippers McGurgle

That's like asking how are allcaps considered yelling.

Not by a long shot. For one thing, not everyone considers all caps to be yelling, however common it is (if there's a rule against it, that's different - merely addressing this precise point). For another, for it to be against the terms of use, it must be clearly spelled out IN the "Terms of Use", which is not even in the same ballpark as your example.

Just as a point of interest, not really pertinent here: I once worked in an office where we had to type everything in all caps. This was pre-internet, BTW (*blush*). I really liked it - it was a lot easier if I didn't always have to remember the shift key. Once the internet was invented (Thanks, Al! ) I continued my merry way, not having the slightest inkling that others saw me as yelling. Heck, I was just being lazy!

I DID actually find "flooding" in the Terms of Use, though - thanks! Wow, have those always been there??

HOUSE RULES

The following is a list of the House Rules of conduct for the WDIG Sites. By using the WDIG Sites you agree not to do any of the following:

<snip>

Engage in antisocial, disruptive, or destructive acts, including "flaming," "spamming," "flooding," "trolling," and "griefing" as those terms are commonly understood and used on the Internet...

<snip>

Again you have that pesky little term "commonly understood" - who's going to define that? And who's going to judge each case? I imagine Disney gets the final word, and it seems they're a tad more liberal with it than we are.

It's really all beside the point, however, when one considers how seriously Disney takes other, more serious griefing behavior. (personally, I would rather they handle that first!)

[Flippers]

You very well know there's a difference between fast typed chat and a runoff of balloon after balloon of filled text. No one could read the latter, and it isnt meant to be read. The kid or antisoc is getting off on the stream of animal noise.

That is known on the Internet as flooding.

Yeah I know - on AOL all caps isn't considered bad netiquette. Back in the day, it wasn't on Netcom either.

[LadyZippyBoingenpretzel]

I'm just wondering how you KNOW the difference, for 100% sure.....but as I said, it's a moot point.

Tying it back into the OP, it is considered bad etiquette to chitchat, whether flooding or not, while craning (note difference between chitchat and strategy chat - and that if you're sf chatting, no one can tell the difference).

[holibeck]

One time I was with a couple toons that secret chatted throughout the cog fight of CFO. Then when it came time to battle the boss, the bigger laff of the two stood by the other while she craned secret chatting all the way. I figured one was being tutored by the other and I think a couple of times the big toon said in Speed Chat, "No Problem" - perhaps trying to communicate her intent to me and others. We won, piece of cake.

You know, I have a 6 yr old who plays TT. He can be such a stinker! I do not stand by him every moment he plays, but #1 - he cannot make secret friends with anyone; #2 - I school him on etiquette and lay stick ground rules pertaining to etiquette, which have consequences; #3 - he reports to me and we talk about his experiences. Yes, I watch him, but not EVERY SECOND - oops sorry I raised my voice... he he

Would TT admin cancel that account because he's only six and acts like it on the game? The game is rated "E" for everyone. I am going to say something here that might offend some people, but here goes...

It is my humble opinion that if you don’t have children of your own that your tolerance level for that kind of behavior could very well be much less than otherwise. I can be very impatient in the game and have stunk toons and told them to please go away, so I do understand the frustration. I do however, think TT admin would sooner pursue adults or teens who bully or display deviant behavior than to punish 6 yr old behavior.

[Flippers]

Originally Posted by LadyZippyBoingenpretzel

I'm just wondering how you KNOW the difference, for 100% sure.....but as I said, it's a moot point.

In general on chat sites, where chat is not limited to balloons at a time, there is often a rule not to dump full paragraphs, but rather to type in smaller amounts. It's for the same reasons: site performance and consideration of the connection of others.

On some chat platforms, sociopaths attack chat "channels" and "rooms" in this manner. Flooding is used as a weapon. Yes, it's very distinct - both there and in Toontown.

This isn't a debate or challenge. I didn't make this up or put that rule into the Toontown terms. It's a fact of life in cybersociety.

In training or helping out, it is different, but when on the same side it's still better to use balloons. Only it's good to try and put speedchat after so they dont linger LOL. I will often tell an SF on the other side if someone is griefing, went sad, etc...

[Wolfeh]

Originally Posted by LadyZippyBoingenpretzel

Just as a point of interest, not really pertinent here: I once worked in an office where we had to type everything in all caps. This was pre-internet, BTW (*blush*). I really liked it - it was a lot easier if I didn't always have to remember the shift key. Once the internet was invented (Thanks, Al! ) I continued my merry way, not having the slightest inkling that others saw me as yelling. Heck, I was just being lazy!

If I remember correctly, the internet itself has been in existance since either the 60's, or very early 70's.

Do you really mean that long ago when you refer to it being "invented", or did you mean once it became widely public?

Originally Posted by holibeck

One time I was with a couple toons that secret chatted throughout the cog fight of CFO. Then when it came time to battle the boss, the bigger laff of the two stood by the other while she craned secret chatting all the way. I figured one was being tutored by the other and I think a couple of times the big toon said in Speed Chat, "No Problem" - perhaps trying to communicate her intent to me and others. We won, piece of cake.

If it was a piece of cake, then they may have known how well a team they had and knew they could afford to train. Be nice if there was a trolley game where people could practice craning. You can practice gooning by going to the factory (and get tons of experience if you do it in the warehouse), but no where can you get craning experience except fighting the CFO.

[LadyZippyBoingenpretzel]

Originally Posted by Wolfeh

If I remember correctly, the internet itself has been in existance since either the 60's, or very early 70's.

Do you really mean that long ago when you refer to it being "invented", or did you mean once it became widely public?

Now, now, Wolfeh! Are you trying to get me to give up my age? That's not nice!

lol, I meant widely available; I was just making a little joke. We got our first Prodigy subscription in the early 90s (that's NINETEEN 90s ), and that was the first I had experienced such a thing.

Flippers, I understand what you're saying, and I didn't mean to give any other impression. However - I'm with holibeck on this one. Do you really think most of the kids who do this are launching some sort of attack (your use of the word weapon implies that you do)? I highly doubt that anyone who does this is anything more than a kid getting a few jollies. I had a sf who would do it and I told him to stop...when he wouldn't I told him I would ditch him if he didn't; he then stopped. He was a pre-teen...my older kids know not to do it because it's annoying - I didn't know about the terms of use but am simply teaching them common courtesy. My younger kids like to make their toon "talk" and will type somethng like "koidhfiugiouho", though admittedly they are none too fast about it.

Terms of use aside - I think we get into trouble when we see "griefing" in any incident that isn't to our liking. This IS A KIDS' GAME (raised voice here, too ) I like what holibeck said so much that I'll just quote it:

It is my humble opinion that if you don’t have children of your own that your tolerance level for that kind of behavior could very well be much less than otherwise.

Even those who do have kids don't seem to get that. My kids don't do the things people complain about; my adult friends say that mine are a joy to play with. But I can't put the same expectation on other peoples' children - or anyone.

[Flippers]

Originally Posted by LadyZippyBoingenpretzel

Flippers, I understand what you're saying, and I didn't mean to give any other impression. However - I'm with holibeck on this one. Do you really think most of the kids who do this are launching some sort of attack (your use of the word weapon implies that you do)?

You think it does?

Terms of use aside - I think we get into trouble when we see "griefing" in any incident that isn't to our liking. This IS A KIDS' GAME (raised voice here, too ) I like what holibeck said so much that I'll just quote it:

No terms of use aside.

The rules enforced are what will teach them - or mom and dad will when they have trouble logging in LOL. It always comes down to the account holder's responsibility.

And I think you should give credit to the vast majority of kids on here who know better, and should at most sentient ages.

The rules state what goes beyond acceptable behavior for ANY age. It's time people stopped saying antisocial practices were okay for kids, when only a certain demographic of kid falls into that category.


Wolfeh: yeah the Internet was started in the early 1960s for government agencies to remain in touch in case one chunk of the world was taken out in a nuclear attack. Eventually Colleges, Universities, and financial institutions were part of the network. Yeah, UNIX has been around that long.

BBSes were the first interactive Internet venue, a section where said financial and education etc etc places participants could leave messages for one another. Live talk came later. The BBSes inspired local dialup ones for people into gaming or other interests etc could connect via computer.

By the 80s you had the Online services like AOL, CompuServe, and eventually Prodigy. These were all around entertainment resources for consumers, but not connected to the Internet. Eventually they would add Internet access as part of their membership, sort of a side door to things in addition to their own offerings. They remain inferior sources of access

Live chat also developed in the 70s for the Internet called "Talk," a simple but instantaneous method of text chat (you can see the words being typed out) but it was IRC in 1989 which revolutionized group chat, and most of chat services online, in games, and by messenger are based on the IRC platform in some way.

btw LadyZ I'm jealous you got a computer so early ;P I had to visit friends with different computer platforms to compose and print out zines. Then again having to adapt from Commodore to Mac II to IBM is probably how I got into Internet-related support for a career.

Anyway I digress (it's a trait I share with Peter David)

I don't think you understand what I'm saying at all. I gave backstory on the origins of flooding and how in its extreme it can be damaging. It can be damaging in Toontown, but not obvious to everyone. I am not saying or implying much of what you interpret. I remain a misunderstood creature. That's okay as long as we can be friends.

[LadyZippyBoingenpretzel]

LOL, I relate to being misunderstood!

I'm just saying that it's tough to interpret that. Clearly TT doesn't interpret it the same way that others do. And I would still rather they deal with the fantastic number of REAL griefers than that....*shrug* And it doesn't look promising for that to ever happen.

Other than that, I stand by what I said....much of what some see as griefing does not even come close, and comes from people imposing their own standards and ideals on others. I think some people just need to loosen up and lighten up