[Kehawin]

Strategies:

Originally Posted by Dizzy Twinklemuffin

Why say you aren't ready? I have taken an 81 laff in a 4 man cfo and a 34 laff (without level 6 gags) in a 4 man vp. The strategy is different for a 4 man... sometimes you fog knowing it won't kill but it will weaken them. Sometimes you leave cogs unlured. Somtimes you go a few turns without being tooned up. It's always a blast, though. The first few you do are hard but after that they get easier and easier. I prefer 4 man cfos because I can actually stomp... when there are 8 in there I usually just end up running into other toons from my lack of coordination, but when only 4 I just end up running into the goons which is a good thing. Plus, there are usually so many treasures lying around it's almost impossible to go sad! Try it... you'll like it!

Originally Posted by Chocoholic1415

The strategy is definitely different. You have to be comfortable skipping tu sometimes until the last minute. Sometimes wounding cogs is preferable to killing them. If you are sided with an uber, just remember to leave the little cogs, don't even waste a gag luring them in most cases.

Originally Posted by Kehawin

Lure left kill right is still something to think about, but not very successful if adhered to religiously. Remember that if a cog in the center was lured longer than the cog on the right, it will come unlured first. Also, if you know you are going to take hits, its usually better to target the largest of cogs, regardless of the lure left/kill right strategy.
Attempting to keep all cogs lured to avoid hits will merely make it so that you take hits anyway. 4 mans are longer battles. Team up on the cogs as much as possible. Use lure religiously and your team mate, you, or both of you will end up with very few large gags left very early in the fight. In other words, YOU WILL TAKE HITS. Get comfortable with it. Plan ahead.
Just because your partner chooses a gag doesn't mean you have to choose the same gag. For example, if your partner chooses foghorn, and you are facing a single level 12 and the rest are 7 and below, you might be better off targeting a single cog with drop or cake. It's a judgement call. If your partner chooses cloud on a 12 and you have no cloud left, you can say sorry I can't and hope they change gags, choose hose and take a hit, or choose a different gag track such as drop or toon up if needed.
Get to know the minimum gag combinations required to kill each level. For example, two cream pies take out a 10 with lure bonus. Cloud and another squirt are another option, but you have less clouds than cream pies, so it is a judgement call. Two clouds are not required on a lured 11, but ARE required on an unlured 11. Two bday cakes aren't required on a lured 12, but ARE required on an unlured 12.
REMEMBER, cogs ALWAYS get lure bonus in boss battles.
Most people who have done 4 mans for a while, especially those who also play ubers, are quite comfortable at half laff. Use toon up only when the max hits of cogs unlured will cause a sadualty (or when all cogs have just been lured, and the laff is pretty low, etc.) But don't be religious about that either. Just remember that rarely is anyone going to be at full laff. Know your toon up gags' abilities: 30 for lipstick, 45 for cane, 70 for dust. Save juggle for when your partner is in the red.
Remember that except restock all, any restock used will fill your bag up ALL THE WAY with that type of gag. So using a restock drop halfway through the battle will cause you or your partner to have an awful lot of little drop gags - pianos only last 3 rounds!
SOS cards can sometimes work out very well in 4 mans. Drop cards work great when you are out of/low on large gags and you are facing a row of lured cogs that the two of you can't take out with your remaining gags. One person unlures one cog, the other drops a 70 point drop - 3 cogs are lured but damaged, and one cog is either gone or ready to be taken out with a small gag. Cogs miss work great if you know that the round will see all cogs unlure.

The funnest 4mans I have been on were where everyone did both jobs. While I understand that this isn't the norm for most people, it's something to keep in mind: that just because you are stomping goons, doesn't mean you can't jump on crane and throw some safes when the CFO is stunned. And just because you jump on crane doesn't mean you should count on a stomper protecting you.
for battles where you have decided (tacitly or vocally) to have "jobs", I personally prefer to have one craner on each side of the CFO rather than both on the same side. If the two craners are on the same side, the other side tends to get overrun with goons while the side the craners are on doesn't seem to have enough to stun him with.
It's helpful to set the safes in throwing position on ALL cranes, in case a stomper has the opportunity to jump on or a craner gets swarmed. That way, no time is lost during a stun reaching for a safe off to the side.
Rarely is there a lack of treasures in a 4 man battle. Don't hold back. Keep yourself healthy.

Originally Posted by Chocoholic1415

1. Don't be afraid to take hits. Kill the cogs, tu only when you really need it or when you've got an open opportunity with lured or low level cogs. Watch your partners back. If things are getting risky, I note our laffs and watch the hits with the mouse on a unite.

2. Don't be afraid to mix gags. One sound gag to injure them all, paired with a gag large enough to kill one is an effective way to go.

Alternate strategy (but goes very slow)
Leave the little guys. Of course, this means no sounding when they start coming out. Don't waste a lure on a level 3 cog. It does get very tedious when you're faced with a row of nothing higher than level 5. LOL. This is how we did 2 toon the first time, it took forever.

Originally Posted by Dawggie

My gag of choice in a 4 person CFO is sound. I typically use elephant horns to weaken the cogs while taking hits from them. Providing the cogs are evenly distributed (with respect to cog level), you will NOT run out of your level 6 throw and squirt gags. Knowing when to use fog or elephant requires an in depth knowledge of gag hit points and cog damage. In a 4 person battle, I feel it is very important to avoid "over-killing" a cog(s) in the name of preserving larger gags. Typically after a round of sound, I survey the damage caused by the cogs and make a quick determination on whether sound again or trap, then heal. At some point (typically when faced with a row of fresh 11's and 12's), it will not be feasable to sound. At that time I will switch to trap/lure, then kill right while leaving the new cog alone to do damage. This will be necessary in order to take full advantage of the lure knockback bonus on the lured cogs. Typically you will be able to take out all but one of the lured cogs before you have to use lure on the new cogs and do a round of healing. At this point, hopefully the new cogs are somewhat lower levels than the 11's and 12's you previously lured and killed. If this is the case, you can go back to the sounding strategy.

It is also very important for anyone engaging in a 4 person battle that you realize that you WILL be taking damage from the cogs regularly. Every toon (person) has their own comfort level at which they feel confident enough to go without a toon up. It is highly recommended (as stated by Kehawin) you familiarize yourselves with the maximum hit damage from each type of cog. This will greatly aid in determining if TU should be used now versus going another round risking total failure of your gag of choice. If at any time you feel you NEED to be tooned, by all means tell your partner to "Wait a minute", "Let's use toon up". Gags CAN and WILL fail at the most inopportune times. Never "trust" that your gag will hit. Always hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst.

An example.... you and your partner are faced with a row of fresh level 11 Loan Sharks. You and your partner are both at 100 laff at this point. The maximum damage that can be done by a loan shark is -24. That means that neither one of you will go sad even if one toon takes max damage from all 4 cogs. Alternately, if you were both at, say 75 laff, you need to consider that one toon can go sad if he/she takes max damage from each cog. This is where you may want to have a unite TU phrase ready at the click of the mouse.

Above all, just have some fun!

I've done many 4 person battles, and have rarely had the need for gag up or TU unites on my bigger toons. Remember, its all about your own personal comfort level.

With respect to packing your bag, here is what I typically pack on my dropping toon:

5 canes, 7 dust, 3 juggling

9 mag, 7 10's, 3 goggles
1 bike horn, 3 aooga's, 7 elf, 3 fog
4 fruit pies, 7 cream, 3 cake
0 bottles (pretty much useless), 7 hose, 3 thunders
1 flower pot, 4 safes, 3 piano's.

If you need more TU than the above, then most likely the team is struggling badly or lure is just plain broke!

Note: the baby gags are purely for the humiliation of the last cog standing while everyone calls their doodles before heading off to send the CFO packing.


My questions are:
Do I have the right type of gags to help with battling cogs and also, will someone please take the lead so I can follow in gags?

The following are what I carry in gags and if there's an adjustment needed... I would welcome any idea's.
9 cane, 7 dust, 3 juggling
0 trap
9 mag, 7 10's, 3 goggles
3 aooga's, 7 elf, 3 fog
2 fruit pies, 7 cream, 3 cake
2 bottles, 7 hose, 3 thunders
2 safes, 3 piano's.

Originally Posted by chocoholic1415

if one side seems to be struggling (or perhaps you're with a tu-less toon ), don't worry about getting full before you finish the last cog. It's good to keep an eye on the cogs of the other side and try to coordinate it so that all 4 toons are together at the end. Kill at less than full laff and run to join the other side, or wait for them to join you.

I also like to see at least 3 toons on cranes. Especially at the beginning the goons come out slow enough that 1 decent stomper can easily handle them. A rogue goon can be stomped by craner as well. And if you switch to 2/2 strategy, DON'T BE AFRAID TO SWITCH CRANES!!!! If it starts getting hectic, go to a crane where you can easily reach a disabled goon without getting knocked off by a swarm.

Full strategy thread can be found here http://www.toontowncentral.com/forum...p/t-96268.html